1
2 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE FOURTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT,
3 IN AND FOR DUVAL COUNTY, FLORIDA
4
CASE NO.: 16-2007-CA-00575-MA
5
6 NORTH FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP
ORGANIZATION, INC., A FLORIDA
7 NOT-FOR-PROFIT CORPORATION,
8 PLAINTIFF,
VS.
9
MISS FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, INC.,
10 A FLORIDA CROPORATION D/B/A THE MISS
FLORIDA PAGEANT; JENNIFER HERRINGTON;
11 JACKSONVILLE SCHOLARSHIP FOUNDATION,
INC., A FLORIDA NOT-FOR-PROFIT
12 CORPORATION; VOYAGER INFO-SYSTEMS,
A CALIFORNIA BUSINESS D/B/A VOYFORUMS.COM;
13 AND GLOBAL GUEST, D/B/A AMAZINGFORUM.COM,
A FOREIGN BUSINESS,
14
DEFENDANTS.
15 ______________________________________/
16 DEPOSITION OF KEITH WILLIAMS
17 DATE: FEBRUARY 19, 2009
TIME: 10:10 A.M.
18 LOCATION: MCLEOD LAW FIRM
48 EAST MAIN STREET
19 APOPKA, FLORIDA 32703
20 REPORTER: SANDRA A. DAWKINS, RPR, FPR
NOTARY PUBLIC
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2 A P P E A R A N C E S
3 KEVIN S. SANDERS, ESQUIRE
4 817 WILLOW BRANCH AVENUE
5 JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA 32205
6 ATTORNEYS FOR PLAINTIFF
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8 KRISTYNE E. KENNEDY, ESQUIRE
9 JACKSON LEWIS
10 390 NORTH ORANGE AVENUE
11 SUITE 1285
12 ORLANDO, FLORIDA 32801
13 ATTORNEY FOR DEFENDANT
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1 I N D E X
2 TESTIMONY OF KEITH WILLIAMS
3 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. SANDERS 5
4 CROSS EXAMINATION BY MS. KENNEDY 106
5 REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. SANDERS 110
6 CERTIFICATE OF OATH 114
7 SUBSCRIPTION OF DEPONENT 115
8 ERRATA SHEET 115
9 LETTER TO ATTORNEY 116
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1 E X H I B I T S
2 1 -- CORPORATE ONLINE STATUS 46
3 2 -- TWO PAGE COLOR DOCUMENT 46
4 3 -- 9-16-06 E-MAIL 55
5 4 -- 9-18-06 E-MAIL 57
6 5 -- E-MAILS 58
7 6 -- E-MAILS 62
8 7 -- E-MAILS 70
9 8 -- 9-16-06 8:27 P.M. E-MAIL 72
10 9 -- E-MAIL 73
11 10 -- 9-19-06 7:57 P.M. E-MAIL 75
12 11 -- E-MAIL 78
13 12 --9-23-06 BOARD MEETING 84
14 13 -- 10-13-06 BOARD MEETING 86
15 14 -- E-MAIL 91
16 15 -- E-MAIL 94
17 16 --E-MAIL 109
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 KEITH WILLIAMS,
3 HAVING BEEN DULY SWORN, WAS EXAMINED AND TESTIFIED AS
4 FOLLOWS:
5 DIRECT EXAMINATION
6 BY MR. SANDERS:
7 Q MR. WILLIAMS, MY NAME IS KEVIN SANDERS. I THINK
8 YOU AND I BOTH KNOW ONE ANOTHER. HAVE YOU EVER HAD YOUR
9 DEPOSITION TAKEN BEFORE?
10 A NO, I HAVEN'T.
11 Q OKAY. A DEPOSITION IS A TOOL THAT LAWYERS USE
12 DURING LITIGATION TO DO WHAT WE CALL DISCOVERY. IT'S
13 SUPPOSED TO BE A FRIENDLY INTERCHANGE OF QUESTIONS AND
14 ANSWERS BACK AND FORTH. I'LL ASK QUESTIONS AND YOU'LL
15 GIVE ME VERBAL ANSWERS. NODDING OF THE HEAD OR SHAKING OF
16 THE HEAD IN AN AFFIRMATIVE OR A NEGATIVE CANNOT REALLY BE
17 RECORDED BY THE REPORTER.
18 A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE A TENDENCY TO USE THE
19 SLANGS, UH-HUH AND HU-HUH, WHICH WHEN WRITTEN ON THE PAGE
20 IS SOMEWHAT CONFUSING WHETHER IT MEANT AN AFFIRMATIVE OR A
21 POSITIVE. SO IF YOU INTENT TO ANSWER A QUESTION YES OR
22 NO, PLEASE. TRY TO SAY YES OR NO AND IF I DO A UH-HUH AND
23 HU-HUH'S MYSELF, I'LL TRY TO BE MINDFUL TO NOTICE IF YOU
24 DIDN'T DO THAT, AND I'LL ASK YOU TO CORRECT YOUR ANSWER.
25 IF AT ANY TIME YOU NEED A BREAK, IF AT ANY TIME
6
1 YOU NEED SOMETHING TO DRINKING, TO GO THE RESTROOM, PLEASE
2 JUST LET ME KNOW OR YOUR ATTORNEY KNOW AND WE'LL TAKE A
3 SHORT BREAK OR WHATEVER LENGTH BREAK YOU THINK YOU MIGHT
4 NEED.
5 AND WHEN YOU ANSWER QUESTIONS, PLEASE DON'T
6 GUESS. IF YOU GUESS, I WON'T KNOW THAT. I DON'T THINK
7 YOUR ATTORNEY WILL KNOW THAT UNLESS YOU SAY I'M GUESSING.
8 IF I ASK YOU A QUESTION THAT YOU DON'T
9 UNDERSTAND, ASK ME TO REPHRASE IT OR TELL ME THAT YOU
10 DON'T UNDERSTAND IT, AND I'LL DO MY BEST TO TRY TO CLARIFY
11 THE QUESTION. AND WE'LL GO FROM THERE. IF YOU ANSWER A
12 QUESTION, I'M GOING TO ASSUME YOU UNDERSTOOD WHAT IT WAS
13 AND THAT WAS YOUR ANSWER.
14 YOUR ATTORNEY FROM TIME-TO-TIME MAY OBJECT TO
15 CERTAIN QUESTIONS. THAT DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN THAT
16 YOU DON'T ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS. THOSE ARE OBJECTIONS
17 THAT ARE TO PRESERVE THE RECORD SHOULD THIS TRANSCRIPT
18 COME IN FRONT OF A JUDGE OR IN FRONT OF A JURY. UNLESS
19 SHE INSTRUCTS YOU TO DO THAT.
20 ONE OF THE PROBLEMS THAT -- NOT PROBLEMS -- BUT
21 CONCERNS WE HAVE WITH MR. LOY YESTERDAY, WAS I WOULD ASK
22 QUESTIONS SOMETIMES AND THERE WOULD BE OBJECTS WITH
23 REGARDS TO ATTORNEY/CLIENT PRIVILEGE. I MAY ASK YOU WHAT
24 YOU MAY HAVE DONE WITH YOUR ATTORNEY OR SURROUNDING THINGS
25 THAT YOU MAY HAVE VIEWED WITH YOUR ATTORNEY, BUT UNDER NO
7
1 INSTANCES SHOULD YOU DIVULGE ANY CONFIDENTIAL
2 CONVERSATIONS THAT YOU'VE HAD BETWEEN YOU AND MS. KENNEDY
3 AND PERHAPS BETWEEN YOU AND MR. MCLEOD.
4 SO ARE WE ON THE SAME PAGE?
5 A OKAY.
6 Q OKAY. FOR THE RECORD, COULD YOU JUST IDENTIFY
7 WHO YOU ARE?
8 A KEITH WILLIAMS.
9 Q OKAY. AND WE'RE ALLOWED TO ASK SOME
10 FOUNDATIONAL QUESTIONS. WHERE DO YOU RESIDE?
11 A IN CLERMONT, FLORIDA.
12 Q DO YOU HAVE AN ADDRESS IN CLERMONT?
13 A 8730 SPYGLASS LOOP.
14 MS. KENNEDY: WHAT?
15 THE WITNESS: LOOP.
16 BY MR. SANDERS:
17 Q HOW LONG HAVE YOU RESIDED THERE?
18 A ABOUT THREE YEARS.
19 Q ARE YOU EMPLOYED?
20 A YES, I AM.
21 Q AND HOW ARE YOU EMPLOYED?
22 A HOW AM I EMPLOYED? WHERE DO I WORK IS THAT WHAT
23 YOU'RE ASKING?
24 Q YEAH, THAT WOULD BE ANOTHER FORM OF THE
25 QUESTION, YES.
8
1 A I'M EMPLOYED AS A LICENSED FUNERAL DIRECTOR AND
2 MANAGER OF A CEMETERY.
3 Q AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN EMPLOYED AS A
4 LICENSED --
5 A AT THAT PARTICULAR JOB, I'VE BEEN THERE A YEAR
6 AND A HALF.
7 Q AND WHO DO YOU WORK FOR?
8 A IT'S THE NAME OF THE COMPANY IS HODGES FAMILY
9 FUNERAL HOME.
10 Q H-O-D-G-E-S?
11 A (RESPONDING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE), AND CHAPEL HILL
12 GARDENS.
13 Q AND DOES HODGES FAMILY FUNERAL HOME HAVE AN
14 ADDRESS?
15 A THEY HAVE SEVERAL ADDRESSES ACTUALLY. THE ONE
16 THAT I WORKED AT IS 11531 HIGHWAY 301. THAT'S IN DADE
17 CITY.
18 Q YOUR HOME AT SPYGLASS LOOP, WHAT CITY IS THAT
19 IN?
20 A CLERMONT.
21 Q AND CHAPEL GARDENS, DOES THAT HAVE AN ADDRESS?
22 A CHAPEL HILL GARDENS.
23 Q WHERE IS THAT AT?
24 A THAT'S THE ADDRESS I JUST GAVE YOU.
25 Q THE SAME ADDRESS?
9
1 A (RESPONDING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE).
2 Q OKAY. ARE YOU FAMILIAR -- AND I ASSUME YOU
3 ARE --- WITH AN ORGANIZATION KNOWN AS MISS FLORIDA
4 SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, INC.?
5 A YES, I AM.
6 Q WHAT IS THE MISS FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT,
7 INC.?
8 A IT'S THE ORGANIZATION THAT HOLDS THE FRANCHISE
9 FOR THE MISS FLORIDA PAGEANT.
10 Q WHEN YOU SAY IT HOLDS THE FRANCHISE?
11 A IT'S BEEN GRANTED THE FRANCHISE FROM THE MISS
12 AMERICA PAGEANT.
13 Q AND WHAT IS YOUR RELATIONSHIP TO THE MISS
14 FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, INC.?
15 A I'M THE SECRETARY.
16 Q AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN THE SECRETARY?
17 A APPROXIMATELY THREE YEARS.
18 Q HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN INVOLVED WITH THE MISS
19 FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, INC.?
20 A TWENTY-NINE YEARS.
21 Q WHAT OTHER POSITIONS HAVE YOU HELD WITH THE MISS
22 FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, INC.?
23 A WITH THE PARTICULAR -- THE 29 YEARS I HAVE BEEN
24 INVOLVED OR -- IT WOULD HAVE BEEN JULY -- YEAH OF 2002, I
25 BELIEVE, SOMEWHERE IN THERE.
10
1 Q SO YOU'VE BEEN INVOLVED SINCE ITS INCEPTION?
2 A I WAS -- IT WAS -- LET'S SEE THAT WOULD HAVE
3 BEEN JUNE AND THEN I CAME ON THE BOARD IN JULY OR AUGUST.
4 I WAS NOT AT THE PAGEANT THEY HELD IN MIAMI, THE FIRST
5 ONE.
6 Q AND AGAIN, I GUESS HAVE YOU HELD ANY OTHER
7 OFFICIAL POSITIONS? I'VE HEARD YOU JUST SAY THAT YOU CAME
8 ON TO THE BOARD, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
9 A WELL, THERE'S A GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT PUT
10 TOGETHER THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS BACK IN 2002 AND I WAS
11 ASKED TO SERVE AS A BOARD MEMBER.
12 Q WHEN YOU SAY GROUP OF PEOPLE BROUGHT THE BOARD
13 TOGETHER, WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT? DESCRIBE HOW THE
14 BOARD I GUESS WAS FORMED AND HOW YOU BECAME A MEMBER OF
15 IT?
16 A WELL, I BECAME A MEMBER BECAUSE THE GROUP THAT
17 CONSISTED OF THE BOARD AT THAT TIME -- THERE WERE SIX OR
18 EIGHT PEOPLE I GUESS MAYBE A FEW MORE -- I THINK IT WAS AT
19 THE JULY MEETING THEY VOTED. THEY VOTED TO ADD ME AS A
20 BOARD MEMBER.
21 Q WERE YOU PRESENT DURING THAT VOTE?
22 A NO, I WAS NOT.
23 Q OKAY. DO YOU KNOW WHO THE SIX OR EIGHT PEOPLE
24 WERE THAT YOU BELIEVE COMPOSED THE BOARD?
25 A I BELIEVE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN MARY SULLIVAN,
11
1 RICHARD WALKER, ROB LOY, I BELIEVE CHRISTY SAUNIG, KITTY
2 PATAPAL. I BELIEVE PATTY ADEVE.
3 MS. KENNEDY: SPELL SAUNIG.
4 MR. SANDERS: I BELIEVE ROB SPELLED IT
5 YESTERDAY, IT ENDED IN A G.
6 THE WITNESS: S-A-U-N-I-G. I BELIEVE -- I
7 THINK THAT'S ABOUT IT BECAUSE I DON'T -- I DON'T
8 RECALL IF THERE'S ANYONE ELSE.
9 BY MR. SANDERS:
10 Q AND BESIDES BEING A BOARD MEMBER AND BEING
11 SECRETARY, HAVE YOU HAD ANY OTHER OFFICIAL POSITIONS?
12 A TICKET CHAIRMAN. IF THAT'S A POSITION. IT'S
13 ALL VOLUNTEER, SO WE KIND OF JUMP IN AND DO WHATEVER WE
14 NEED TO DO.
15 Q WHAT IS -- I KNOW YOU SAID IT'S THE HOLDER OF
16 THE FRANCHISE FOR THE MISS FLORIDA PAGEANT UNDER MISS
17 AMERICA -- BUT WHAT TECHNICALLY IS THE MISS FLORIDA
18 SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, INC.?
19 A I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION.
20 Q LET ME SHOW YOU WHAT IS LISTED WITH TALLAHASSEE
21 TO BE THE MISS FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, INC. AND I'LL
22 ASK YOU IF YOU'VE EVER BEEN OUT TO THE CORPORATE WEB SITE
23 OR IF YOU'VE EVER SEEN ANY OF THE CORPORATE RENEWALS THAT
24 HAVE COME IN FOR THE MISS FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT.
25 INC.?
12
1 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
2 THE WITNESS: NO.
3 BY MR. SANDERS:
4 Q YOU'VE NEVER SEEN THAT BEFORE?
5 A NO.
6 Q ACCORDING TO TALLAHASSEE, AS REPORTED BY THE
7 MISS FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, INC, THE CORPORATION
8 ADDRESS IS 6800 BIRD ROAD, NUMBER 351. DOES THAT ADDRESS
9 SOUND FAMILIAR TO YOU?
10 A YES, IT DOES.
11 Q WHOSE ADDRESS IS THAT?
12 A THAT'S THE MISS FLORIDA PAGEANT ADDRESS. THAT'S
13 WHERE ALL OF -- THEY RECEIVE THEIR MAIL.
14 Q IS THAT A BUSINESS ADDRESS OR A PERSONAL
15 ADDRESS?
16 A IT'S A BUSINESS ADDRESS.
17 Q AND IS THERE LIKE -- IS THAT LIKE AN OFFICE
18 ALTERNATIVE KIND OF ADDRESS?
19 A YES.
20 Q OKAY. AND THIS INDICATES THAT THE OFFICERS OR
21 DIRECTORS OF THE CORPORATION ARE MARY SULLIVAN, JAMES
22 WALKER, AND ROB LOY; IS THAT CORRECT?
23 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM. IT'S LOY,
24 NOT LOW.
25 MR. SANDERS: I DID THAT YESTERDAY ALL DAY.
13
1 THE WITNESS: THAT'S WHAT IT STATES.
2 BY MR. SANDERS:
3 Q DO YOU SEE YOUR NAME ON THERE ANYWHERE?
4 A NO, SIR.
5 Q DO YOU SEE ANY OF THE OTHERS THAT YOU MENTIONED
6 I GUESS CHRISTIE SONIC, KITTY PATAPAL OR PATTY ADEVE ON
7 THERE?
8 A NO.
9 Q OKAY. HOW DOES THIS CORPORATION FUNCTION IN
10 YOUR DESCRIPTION?
11 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
12 THE WITNESS: HOW DOES IT FUNCTION?
13 BY MR. SANDERS:
14 Q CORRECT. DOES IT FUNCTION LIKE A CORPORATION?
15 A WELL, WE'RE ALL VOLUNTEERS, AND I THINK MOST OF
16 US WERE NOT THERE TO -- THE REASON THAT WE'RE THERE IS FOR
17 THE PURPOSE OF THE PROGRAM, WHICH IS THE SCHOLARSHIP AND
18 HELPING THE YOUNG LADIES AND SO FORTH. SO AS FAR AS
19 OPERATING EXACTLY BY THIS -- I MEAN, THAT'S THE THREE THAT
20 ARE ON THE, YOU KNOW, THE DIRECTORS WITH THE STATE, SO --
21 Q WELL, WHEN YOU MENTION THERE'S ANOTHER BOARD,
22 LET ME SHOW YOU -- THIS IS A COPY OF THE 2006 MISS FLORIDA
23 PAGEANT BOOK?
24 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM. THERE'S
25 NO QUESTION YET, BUT I OBJECT TO THE FORM WHEN YOU
14
1 MENTION THERE'S A BOARD.
2 BY MR. SANDERS:
3 Q AND THIS TWO PAGE SET OF PHOTOGRAPHS COMES UP AS
4 INDICATING THAT'S THE BOARD. ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THAT
5 PARTICULAR PAGEANT BOOK?
6 A (RESPONDING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE).
7 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
8 THE WITNESS: YES.
9 BY MR. SANDERS:
10 Q AND WHEN YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT -- WELL, LET ME
11 JUST ASK YOU, HOW MANY BOARDS ARE THERE TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE
12 ON THE MISS FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT?
13 A HOW MANY BOARDS?
14 Q YEAH, IS THERE ONE BOARD, TWO BOARDS, THREE
15 BOARDS?
16 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
17 THE WITNESS: ACCORDING TO THIS, THERE'S
18 ONE.
19 BY MR. SANDERS:
20 Q OKAY. SO IF THESE MEMBERS ARE HELD OUT TO THE
21 PUBLIC IN THE PROGRAM BOOK AS BEING BOARD MEMBERS, THEN
22 THIS BOOK WOULD BE IN ERROR THEN?
23 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
24 THE WITNESS: I GUESS IT'S A MATTER OF
25 OPINION.
15
1 BY MR. SANDERS:
2 Q I GUESS THAT'S WHY YOU'RE HERE TODAY. I'M
3 TRYING TO SEEK YOUR OPINION.
4 A MY OPINION WOULD BE NO.
5 Q OKAY.
6 A OKAY. BUT IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT THIS THEN, YES.
7 Q SO JUST TO BE CLEAR, YOUR TESTIMONY HERE TODAY
8 IS THAT YOU BELIEVE THAT THERE'S ONLY ONE BOARD AND THAT'S
9 THE BOARD THAT'S REFERENCED ON THE CORPORATE WEB SITE
10 CORPORATE INFORMATION OF MARY SULLIVAN, RICHARD WALKER AND
11 ROB LOY?
12 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM. THAT'S
13 MISCHARACTERIZING HIS TESTIMONY.
14 THE WITNESS: WELL, ACCORDING TO THAT I
15 WOULD, BUT ACCORDING TO THE OPERATIONS AND SO
16 FORTH THEN.
17 BY MR. SANDERS:
18 Q WELL, THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT. ARE
19 THERE TWO BOARDS? WHO RUNS THE CORPORATION?
20 A MARY SULLIVAN --
21 Q MARY SULLIVAN?
22 A -- IS THE PRESIDENT, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR.
23 SHE'S -- SHE HAS THE FRANCHISE FOR THE MISS AMERICA
24 PAGEANT.
25 Q IS IT IN HER NAME?
16
1 A I BELIEVE SHE IS LISTED AS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR.
2 Q WHEN YOU SAY MARY SULLIVAN RUNS THE PAGEANT,
3 WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?
4 A WELL, SHE'S THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR.
5 Q AND I GUESS FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE OF BEING ON THE
6 BOARD SINCE 2002, COULD YOU GIVE ME A JOB DESCRIPTION FOR
7 MARY SULLIVAN?
8 A IT'S EXTREMELY LENGTHY. YOU KNOW, SHE HANDLES
9 SECURING ALL OF OUR CONTRACTS WITH THE LOCATION FOR OUR
10 PAGEANT. SHE HANDLES PREPARATION FOR MISS FLORIDA
11 PAGEANT. SHE HANDLES APPEARANCES. SHE WORKS WITH
12 SECURING SPONSORS. SHE WORKS WITH ALL OF OUR LOCAL
13 DIRECTORS, EACH LOCAL HAS AN EXECUTIVE DIRECTORS, SO THEY
14 DO THE SAME THING ON THEIR LOCAL LEVEL. YOU BEING SERVED
15 AS AN EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, DIRECT ARE FAMILIAR WITH THAT
16 I'M SURE.
17 SO SHE -- SHE HE -- SHE KIND OF RUNS THE SHOW.
18 Q WHEN YOU SAY SHE RUNS THE SHOW, DOES THAT PRETTY
19 MUCH MEAN SHE DOES EVERYTHING RELATED TO THE PAGEANT?
20 A SHE HAS AN INPUT IN EVERYTHING. THAT'S WHY
21 SHE -- SHE HAS A COMMITTEE, YOU KNOW, BUT SHE HAS AN INPUT
22 AS TO WHAT PRODUCTIONS IS GOING TO DO. SHE HAS INPUT ON
23 WHEN I'M DOING TICKETS. SHE AND I WORK CLOSELY TOGETHER
24 ON THOSE ITEMS WHEN WE'RE PUTTING THE GALA TOGETHER. OUR
25 PRINCES PROGRAM. SHE HAS HER HAND IN A LOT OF IT.
17
1 Q AND SHE PRETTY MUCH MAKES ALL THE DECISIONS OR
2 THE FINAL DECISIONS ON THEM?
3 A SHE HAS --
4 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM.
5 THE WITNESS: SHE HAS THE RIGHT TO MAKE THE
6 FINAL DECISION, BUT IT'S USUALLY -- SHE WILL SEEK
7 ADVICE OF THOSE THAT ARE THAT HAVE DIRECT, FOR
8 EXAMPLE, IF IT IS TICKETS, THEN SHE AND I WILL
9 TALK ABOUT IT. IF IT'S PRODUCTION, SHE'LL GO TO
10 THE PRODUCTION TEAM AND ASK THEM AND IF --
11 BY MR. SANDERS:
12 Q LET ME SHOW YOU A COLORED COPY OF THOSE TWO
13 PAGES IN THE PROGRAM BOOK AND I WOULD ASK YOU TO EXAMINE
14 THAT AND MAKE SURE THAT THE COPY IS --
15 MS. KENNEDY: CAN I PULL THIS APART?
16 Q -- TRUE AND ACCURATE COPY.
17 MS. KENNEDY: I TRUST YOU, BUT LET'S MAKE
18 SURE IT'S THE SAME.
19 THE WITNESS: IT APPEARS TO BE.
20 BY MR. SANDERS:
21 Q NOW, I NOTICED DURING YOUR PREVIOUS ANSWER, YOU
22 SAID SHE HAS A COMMITTEE AND YOU KIND OF POINTED TO THE
23 BOOK. WOULD YOU CONSIDER THE INDIVIDUALS IN THE
24 PHOTOGRAPHS IN THE BOOK THE COMMITTEE THAT YOU'RE TALKING
25 ABOUT?
18
1 A WELL, I THINK EVERYBODY KIND OF HAD THEIR JOB
2 RESPONSIBILITIES. MAYBE THAT WAS A COMMITTEE. SO.
3 Q AND AGAIN, I'M JUST ASKING BASED ON YOUR YEARS
4 OF WORK FROM 2002 WITH MISS FLORIDA, WHAT IS BEING
5 REFERRED TO AS THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS, WAS THAT MORE LIKE
6 A COMMITTEE SEVERING UNDER MARY SULLIVAN OR WAS IT
7 ACTUALLY SOME KIND OF AUTONOMOUS BOARD OF DIRECTORS?
8 A I WOULD SAY IT WAS A BOARD OF DIRECTORS.
9 Q AND WHY DO YOU SAY THAT?
10 A WELL, BECAUSE AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE IT SAYS
11 BOARD OF DIRECTORS.
12 Q BUT YOU AND I BOTH AGREED PREVIOUSLY THAT WITH A
13 CORPORATE RECORDS, THERE'S ONLY THREE OF THE INDIVIDUALS
14 LISTED WITH THE DIVISION OF CORPORATIONS IN TALLAHASSEE?
15 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
16 THE WITNESS: YES.
17 BY MR. SANDERS:
18 Q HAVE YOU EVER -- I KNOW YOU SAID YOU HAVEN'T
19 SEEN THIS ONE BEFORE, BUT HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A PRINTOUT OF
20 CORPORATIONS?
21 A YES, I HAVE.
22 Q OKAY. AND YOU NOTICE OVER HERE IT DOES GIVE THE
23 NAMES AND ADDRESSES OF THE INDIVIDUALS AND THEN THERE'S
24 USUALLY A LETTER UNDER TITLE?
25 A (RESPONDING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE).
19
1 Q THERE'S A D UNDER TITLE FOR EACH ONE OF THE
2 PEOPLE LISTED, MARY SULLIVAN, RICHARD WALKER AND ROB LOY.
3 DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE D STANDS FOR?
4 A IS IT DIRECTOR? I'M NOT SURE.
5 Q AND SO YOU DON'T KNOW IF IT'S DIRECTOR OR NOT?
6 A NO, I DON'T.
7 Q OKAY.
8 A BUT I'M JUST ASSUMING SINCE IT'S A D THAT'S A
9 GOOD CHANCE THAT IT COULD BE.
10 Q DO YOU SEE OTHER THAN MARY SULLIVAN, RICHARD
11 WALKER -- I GUESS HE GOES BY JAMES WALKER WITH
12 TALLAHASSEE -- AND ROB LOY, DO YOU SEE ANY OF THE OTHER
13 INDIVIDUALS LISTED IN THIS PROGRAM BOOK AS DIRECTORS OF
14 THIS CORPORATION?
15 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
16 THE WITNESS: REPEAT THE QUESTION AGAIN.
17 BY MR. SANDERS:
18 Q SURE. I'LL JUST CHANGE IT A LITTLE BIT. OTHER
19 THAN MARY SULLIVAN, RICHARD WALKER, AND ROB LOY, THOSE ARE
20 THE FIRST THREE ON THE TOP OF THE FRONT PAGE, NONE OF
21 THESE OTHER PEOPLE INCLUDING YOURSELF ARE LISTED WITH
22 TALLAHASSEE AS DIRECTORS, ARE THEY?
23 A AS STATED EARLIER, NO, THEY'RE NOT.
24 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM.
25
20
1 BY MR. SANDERS:
2 Q BLESS YOU. WHAT, IF ANY, BYLAWS, RULES OR
3 REGULATIONS DOES THE MISS FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT,
4 INC. HAVE TO GOVERN THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS?
5 A I BELIEVE THERE'S A SET OF BYLAWS.
6 Q HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THEM?
7 A NO, I HAVEN'T.
8 Q WHO WOULD HAVE THOSE?
9 A I WITH BELIEVE MARY MAY HAVE A COPY.
10 Q AND SHE'S NEVER DISTRIBUTED THOSE TO THE BOARD
11 MEMBERS?
12 A I'VE NEVER ASKED TO SEE THEM.
13 Q DO YOU KNOW IF ANYBODY HAS SEEN THEM?
14 A I'M SURE ANYBODY THAT HAS ASKED HER TO SEE THEM,
15 SHE HAS PROVIDED IT TO THEM.
16 Q THAT'S PROBABLY A TRUE STATEMENT. BUT I'M
17 ASKING YOU FROM YOUR PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE, DO YOU KNOW OF
18 ANYBODY WHO HAS ACTUALLY SEEN BYLAWS OR RULES OR
19 REGULATIONS FOR THIS CORPORATION?
20 A NO, I DID NOT.
21 Q OKAY. AND YOU'VE BEEN A MEMBER SINCE 2002, AND
22 YOU'VE NEVER REQUESTED THAT INFORMATION?
23 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECTION, ASKED AND ANSWERED.
24 THE WITNESS: NO.
25
21
1 BY MR. SANDERS:
2 Q OKAY. HOW THEN DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR DUTIES AND
3 OTHER INDIVIDUALS DUTIES ARE IF THERE IS NO GOVERNING
4 BYLAWS?
5 A BECAUSE --
6 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
7 THE WITNESS: BECAUSE WE ARE A VOLUNTEER
8 ORGANIZATION, AND THE PURPOSE OF THE ORGANIZATION
9 AND THE PURPOSE WHAT WE'RE THERE FOR IS NOT TO BE
10 WORRIED ABOUT OUR BYLAWS. MAYBE WE SHOULD BE.
11 BUT IT'S FOR THE PURPOSE OF THE PROGRAM, SO MY JOB
12 RESPONSIBILITIES ARE WHATEVER NEEDS TO BE DONE AND
13 I'M AVAILABLE TO DO THAT.
14 BY MR. SANDERS:
15 Q AGAIN, BUT IF YOU DON'T HAVE A WRITTEN RULE
16 TELLING YOU WHAT YOUR JOB AND DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES
17 ARE, WHO MAKES THE DECISION AS TO WHAT YOUR JOB AND
18 RESPONSIBILITIES ARE?
19 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECTION TO FORM.
20 THE WITNESS: IT WOULD DEPEND ON THE
21 SITUATION AND WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.
22 BY MR. SANDERS
23 Q WOULD MARY SULLIVAN BE THE ULTIMATE DETERMINER
24 OF THAT?
25 A TO A DEGREE, PROBABLY SO.
22
1 Q ARE THERE ANY RULES OR REGULATIONS THAT ARE
2 DISSEMINATED TO THE LOCAL PAGEANT ABOUT HOW THE LOCAL
3 PAGEANT ARE TO CONDUCT THEMSELVES?
4 A THERE ARE SOME RULES IN THEIR FRANCHISE
5 AGREEMENT.
6 Q BUT OTHER THAN I GUESS THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENT
7 ITSELF, ARE THERE ANY RULES OR REGULATIONS OR ANY DO'S OR
8 DON'T THAT ARE INCORPORATED IN TO THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENT
9 OR ARE REFERENCED TO THE LOCAL PAGEANT?
10 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
11 THE WITNESS: JUST WHAT'S IN THEIR FRANCHISE
12 AGREEMENT.
13 BY MR. SANDERS:
14 Q OKAY. AND SO I'M GOING TO ASK IT A DIFFERENT
15 WAY JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT I UNDERSTAND. TO YOUR
16 KNOWLEDGE THERE ARE NO ACTUAL SEPARATE LOCAL RULES FOR
17 LOCAL FRANCHISES WITH PAGEANTS?
18 A CORRECT.
19 Q EVERYTHING IS INCORPORATED IN THE FRANCHISE?
20 A IT'S IN THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENT.
21 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM.
22 BY MR. SANDERS:
23 Q IF THERE ARE NO WRITTEN LOCAL RULES GOVERNING
24 THE PAGEANT EXCEPT FOR THE FRANCHISES, WHO MAKES THE
25 DECISION OF WHAT LOCALS CAN AND CANNOT DO AND HOW THEY CAN
23
1 PROCEED AND HOW THEY CAN'T PROCEED?
2 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
3 THE WITNESS: WHO MAKES THE DECISION?
4 BY MR. SANDERS:
5 Q YES.
6 A I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO REPHRASE THE QUESTION.
7 Q TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, WHO MAKES THE RULES WITH
8 REGARDS TO LOCAL PAGEANTS?
9 A THE RULES THAT ARE IN THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENT?
10 Q WELL, THE RULES -- AGAIN, THE RULES ON THE
11 FRANCHISE AGREEMENT I UNDERSTAND COME FROM MISS AMERICA.
12 A CORRECT.
13 Q HAS THERE BEEN ANYTHING INCLUDED IN THE MISS
14 AMERICA FRANCHISE AGREEMENT THAT IS SEPARATE AND APART
15 ONLY --
16 A FROM TIME-TO-TIME, WE MAY HAVE AN ADDENDUM.
17 MS. KENNEDY: YOU ALSO HAVE TO LET HIM
18 FINISH HIS QUESTION TOO. PEOPLE DO THAT ALL THE
19 TIME.
20 BY MR. SANDERS:
21 Q JUST I KNOW --
22 MS. KENNEDY: SORRY.
23 BY MR. SANDERS:
24 Q I KNOW EVERYBODY WANTS TO BE DONE WITH THIS AS
25 SOON AS POSSIBLE, BUT I LIKE TO TRY TO KEEP DEPOSITIONS IS
24
1 WE'RE NOT TRYING TO CASH A TRAIN. SO FEEL CALM AND JUST
2 REFLECT ON THE QUESTION AND THEN YOU CAN ANSWER AND THAT
3 WOULD GIVE HER TIME TO OBJECT AND HER TIME TO WRITE THINGS
4 DOWN AND THINGS. I THINK THAT WILL PROBABLY GO WELL.
5 MS. KENNEDY: I'M NOT IMPLYING THAT ANYBODY
6 IS IN A HURRY. I'M SUGGESTING THAT PEOPLE ON A
7 NORMAL DAY SPEAKING OFTEN DO TALK OVER EACH OTHER.
8 IT'S A COMMON THING THAT WITNESSES WILL DO.
9 MR. SANDERS: COME TO MY HOUSE DURING A
10 HOLIDAY.
11 BY MR. SANDERS:
12 Q TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, ARE ANY SPECIFIC RULES THAT
13 MISS FLORIDA PUT IN ARE PUT INTO THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENT?
14 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
15 THE WITNESS: THERE MAYBE SOME. LIKE I SAID
16 THERE MAYBE AN ADDENDUM FROM TIME-TO-TIME. I
17 CAN'T RECALL IF WE'VE EVER DONE THAT AND AS
18 SPECIFICALLY WHAT IT WOULD BE.
19 BY MR. SANDERS:
20 Q THEN I'LL GO BACK TO MY ORIGINAL QUESTION. IF
21 THERE ARE NO WRITTEN RULES OTHER THAN FRANCHISE AGREEMENT
22 OF HOW LOCALS CAN GOVERN THEMSELVES OR SHOULD GOVERN
23 THEMSELVES, WHO MAKES UP THE RULES OR ENFORCES THE RULES?
24 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
25 THE WITNESS: THE LOCALS WOULD MAKE UP THEIR
25
1 OWN RULES TO RUN THEIR LOCALS.
2 BY MR. SANDERS:
3 Q WELL, I'M TALKING ABOUT AS FAR AS THE LOCALS
4 RESPONSIBILITIES TO MISS FLORIDA?
5 A THAT'S STATED IN THEIR FRANCHISE AGREEMENT.
6 Q OKAY. SO THERE WOULD BE NOTHING GOVERNING THE
7 LOCAL FRANCHISES EXCEPT WHAT IS IN THE FRANCHISE
8 AGREEMENT?
9 A CORRECT.
10 Q NOW, WAS THERE -- I KNOW YOU GAVE I THINK FIVE
11 POINTS ON MARY SULLIVAN, WERE THERE ANY OTHER JOB
12 DESCRIPTIONS, DUTIES OR POWERS THAT YOU KNOW OF THAT YOU
13 HAVEN'T HIT AS FAR AS MARY SULLIVAN IS CONCERNED?
14 A I DO NOT RECALL THE ONES THAT I GAVE YOU. BUT
15 I'M SURE THAT THE LONGER I SIT AND THINK ABOUT IT, SHE
16 DOES AN AWFUL LOT YOU KNOW.
17 Q I GUESS THE MISS FLORIDA PAGEANT ESSENTIALLY IS
18 HER PAGEANT. SHE SIGNS THE FRANCHISE WITH MISS AMERICA?
19 A CORRECT.
20 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM.
21 BY MR. SANDERS:
22 Q WHAT, IF ANY, DUTIES DO YOU KNOW THAT RICHARD
23 WALKER DOES?
24 A RICHARD WALKER IS THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD.
25 Q NOW, IS HE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD THAT'S LISTED
26
1 HERE IN THE PROGRAM BOOK, WHICH IS THE TWO PAGE COLOR --
2 A YES.
3 Q -- EXHIBIT? OKAY. DO YOU KNOW IF HE IS
4 CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD FOR WHAT IS LISTED WITH CORPORATE
5 INFORMATION?
6 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
7 THE WITNESS: I DID NOT KNOW.
8 BY MR. SANDERS:
9 Q WHAT WOULD BE THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD'S DUTIES
10 OR RESPONSIBILITIES AS YOU HAVE SEEN THEM SINCE 2002?
11 A HE CONDUCTS THE MEETINGS.
12 Q ANYTHING ELSE?
13 A I THINK AS CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD, THAT WOULD
14 PROBABLY BE -- HE HAS OTHER THINGS THAT HE DOES -- BUT I
15 DON'T THINK THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT HE'S
16 CHAIRMAN TELEVISION BOARD, I THINK THAT HAS TO DO THAT HE
17 IS A VOLUNTEER FOR OUR ORGANIZATION.
18 Q AS FAR AS YOU NOTICED SINCE 2002, AS CHAIRMAN OF
19 THE BOARD THE ONLY DUTY AS CHAIR HAS BEEN CONDUCTING
20 MEETINGS?
21 A (RESPONDING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE).
22 Q AND OTHER THAN THAT, WHAT WOULD BE THE OTHER
23 VOLUNTEER THINGS THAT HE DOES?
24 A HE WORKS WITH PRODUCTION.
25 Q WHAT ELSE, IF ANYTHING?
27
1 A HE A LOT OF OUR JOBS. I MEAN, WE DO WHATEVER IS
2 NEEDED. SO PAGEANT WEEK, HE LENDS A HAND AND HELPS OUT
3 WHEREVER WE NEED SO.
4 Q BUT THE TWO MAIN THINGS THAT YOU KNOW HIM TO DO
5 IS CONDUCT MEETINGS AND PRODUCTION?
6 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM.
7 BY MR. SANDERS:
8 Q THOSE ARE THE MAIN ISSUES?
9 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
10 THE WITNESS: YES.
11 BY MR. SANDERS:
12 Q IS THERE ANYTHING IN WRITING ANYWHERE THAT
13 DESCRIBES WHAT THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD IS SUPPOSED TO
14 DO?
15 A NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF.
16 Q ROB LOY, DO YOU KNOW WHAT HIS JOB DESCRIPTION
17 IS? NOW, IT SAYS HERE IN THE PROGRAM BOOK THAT HIS TITLE
18 IS VICE-PRESIDENT. DO YOU KNOW WHAT HIS JOB
19 RESPONSIBILITIES ARE OR WHAT HE DOES AS VICE-PRESIDENT?
20 A ROB HAS A LOT OF INTERACTION WITH THE LOCALS
21 WITH THEIR JUDGES. HE WORKS WITH THE JUDGES FOR THE STATE
22 PAGEANT. HE ASSISTS WITH THE TEEN PAGEANT.
23 Q ANYTHING ELSE?
24 A NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF.
25 Q NOW, IS THAT THE DESCRIPTION OF WHAT ROB LOY
28
1 VOLUNTEERS TO DO OR IS THAT THE DESCRIPTION OF WHAT THE
2 VICE-PRESIDENT OF THE MISS FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT IS
3 SUPPOSED TO DO?
4 A THAT'S A DESCRIPTION OF WHAT ROB LOY VOLUNTEERS
5 TO DO.
6 Q OKAY. IS THERE ANY WRITTEN OR OTHER DESCRIPTION
7 OF WHAT A VICE-PRESIDENT IS SUPPOSED TO DO FOR THE MISS
8 FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, INC.?
9 A NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF.
10 Q I'M JUST GOING TO GO DOWN THE PAGEANT BOOK. IT
11 SAYS KITTY PATAPAL, SHE'S ALSO LISTED AS A VICE-PRESIDENT.
12 YOU'VE ALREADY TESTIFIED WITH ROB THAT THERE'S NO
13 DESCRIPTION OF THAT, BUT WHAT DOES KITTY PATAPAL DO?
14 A SHE'S NOT CURRENTLY ON THE BOARD.
15 Q WHAT DID SHE USED TO DO?
16 A SHE HANDLED OUR HOSTESSES. SHE DID SOME FUND
17 RAISING.
18 Q ANYTHING ELSE?
19 A WORKED WITH THE CONTESTANTS DURING PAGEANT WEEK.
20 Q NOW AGAIN, IS THAT A DESCRIPTION OF WHAT SHE
21 VOLUNTEERS TO DO OR IS THAT A DESCRIPTION OF WHAT HER
22 DUTIES WERE AS VICE-PRESIDENT?
23 A THAT'S WHAT SHE VOLUNTEERS TO DO.
24 Q THE NEXT PICTURE IS KEITH WILLIAMS, YOU. YOU'RE
25 LISTED AS SECRETARY AND TREASURER. ARE YOU BOTH SECRETARY
29
1 AND TREASURER?
2 A SECRETARY.
3 Q JUST SECRETARY.
4 A (RESPONDING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE) CURRENTLY.
5 Q HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TREASURER?
6 A NO, SIR. WELL, IT SAYS THAT. I MEAN, THAT'S
7 THERE. AS FOR BEING A WRITTEN DESCRIPTION, NO.
8 Q BUT SINCE 2000 -- WHEN DID YOU BECOME SECRETARY
9 DO YOU KNOW?
10 A I THINK I STATED EARLIER IT WAS ABOUT THREE
11 YEARS AGO, TWO YEARS AGO. IT'S PROBABLY IN 2004, 2005.
12 WELL -- MAYBE LATER THAN THAT. I DON'T RECALL.
13 Q OKAY. BUT YOU WERE ON I GUESS JUST TO FOLLOW
14 YOU WERE ON THE BOARD AND THEN YOU WERE ELECTED SECRETARY?
15 A RIGHT.
16 Q OKAY. AND YOU'VE NEVER BEEN ELECTED TREASURER,
17 THAT'S YOUR TESTIMONY?
18 A I BELIEVE THE PERSON THAT WAS
19 SECRETARY/TREASURER BEFORE ME HAD THAT TITLE WHEN I WAS
20 ELECTED -- THE TITLE JUST MOVED OVER, BUT I NEVER
21 FULFILLED THE OBLIGATIONS IF THERE WERE ANY OF TREASURER.
22 Q WHAT -- FIRST OF ALL I'LL ASK YOU, ARE THERE ANY
23 WRITTEN DUTIES WITH REGARDS TO THE SECTION POSITION?
24 A NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF.
25 Q WHAT DO YOU CONSIDER YOUR DUTIES AND
30
1 RESPONSIBILITIES?
2 A AS SECRETARY?
3 Q YES, SIR.
4 A I TAKE THE MINUTES OF THE MEETINGS.
5 Q ANYTHING ELSE?
6 A AS SECRETARY, THAT'S ABOUT IT.
7 Q AND THEN WHAT, IF ANY, OTHER DUTIES DO YOU DO
8 FOR THE MISS FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, INC.?
9 A AS I STATED EARLIER, TICKET CHAIRMAN. I HANDLE
10 THE GALA. SERVE AS A FIELD DIRECTOR, IF NEEDED. CONDUCT
11 JUDGE'S WORKSHOP. AND ANYTHING ELSE THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE
12 DURING PAGEANT WEEK, MOVE BOXES.
13 Q NOW, THOSE THINGS THAT YOU JUST LISTED THOSE ARE
14 JUST VOLUNTEER THINGS THAT YOU DO, THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO
15 WITH THE JOB AS SECRETARY?
16 A CORRECT.
17 Q NOW, YOU'VE INDICATED YOU DO JUDGE'S WORKSHOPS.
18 WHAT DO YOU DO AS FAR AS JUDGE'S WORKSHOPS?
19 A FACILITATE, PRESENT THEM AND --
20 Q DID YOU PRESENT THE JUDGE'S WORKSHOP BACK ON
21 DECEMBER 18, 2007?
22 A I BELIEVE I DID. I BELIEVE YOU WERE IN
23 ATTENDANCE TO THAT ONE, SO --
24 Q DO YOU RECALL I'M GOING TO REFER TO MYSELF AS
25 KEVIN SANDERS TO TRY TO KEEP THE RECORD CLEAR ON THAT. DO
31
1 YOU RECALL WHY KEVIN SANDERS WAS INITIALLY NOT ALLOWED TO
2 COME IN TO THE JUDGES WORKSHOP?
3 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM.
4 THE WITNESS: I DO NOT RECALL, NO.
5 BY MR. SANDERS:
6 Q WAS THAT BY YOUR ORDER OR WAS THAT?
7 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM.
8 THE WITNESS: NO THAT WAS NOT BY MY ORDER.
9 BY MR. SANDERS:
10 Q WERE YOU AWARE THAT THE -- THE LOCATION FOR THIS
11 WAS WJXT, THE PUBLIC RADIO STATION IN JACKSONVILLE,
12 FLORIDA, WAS IT NOT?
13 A I BELIEVE IT WAS PUBLIC TELEVISION.
14 Q YES, I SAID RADIO, THAT'S TRUE. DO YOU KNOW WHY
15 THE GUARD FOR WJXT TOLD KEVIN SANDERS HE WAS NOT ALLOWED
16 TO BE ADMITTED TO THE JUDGE'S WORKSHOP ON 12/18/07?
17 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM.
18 THE WITNESS: I BELIEVE HE MAY HAVE GOTTEN
19 SOME MISS INFORMATION FROM SOMEONE ELSE THAT WAS
20 THERE.
21 BY MR. SANDERS:
22 Q AND WHO MIGHT THAT HAVE BEEN?
23 A POSSIBLY ONE OF THE LADIES THAT WAS THERE
24 SPONSORING THE EVENT FOR US.
25 Q AND WHO COULD THAT HAVE POSSIBLY BEEN?
32
1 A POSSIBLY KAREN MILLER.
2 Q ANYBODY ELSE THAT MAY HAVE GIVEN THAT MISS
3 INFORMATION TO THE GUARD FOR WJXT?
4 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM.
5 THE WITNESS: NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF.
6 BY MR. SANDERS:
7 Q DO YOU KNOW HOW THAT WAS RESOLVED TO ALLOW KEVIN
8 SANDERS TO COME INTO THE JUDGE'S WORKSHOP?
9 A I TOLD THEM TO LET HIM IN.
10 Q DO YOU KNOW IF KEVIN SANDERS WAS POSED ON THE
11 JUDGE'S LIST FOR THAT UPCOMING PAGEANT SEASON AFTER HE
12 ATTENDED THE JUDGE'S WORKSHOP ON 12/18/07?
13 A I DON'T RECALL.
14 Q I'M GOING BACK TO THE PROGRAM BOOK, THE COPY OF
15 WHICH YOU ACKNOWLEDGE IS A TRUE AND ACCURATE COPIES IN
16 FRONT OF YOU.
17 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
18 BY MR. SANDERS:
19 Q THE NEXT PICTURE THERE IS FOR DOCTOR PATTY
20 ADEVE, IT SAYS SCHOLARSHIP CHAIRMAN. IS THERE AN OFFICIAL
21 OFFICER POSITION FOR THE CORPORATION OF SCHOLARSHIP
22 CHAIRMAN?
23 A NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF.
24 Q WHAT, IF ANY, JOB DESCRIPTION DOES PATTY ADEVE
25 HAVE?
33
1 A SHE HANDLES THE PRESENTING OF THE SCHOLARSHIP
2 FUNDS TO THE YOUNG LADIES, EITHER MISS FLORIDA OR SOMEBODY
3 THAT HAS WON A SCHOLARSHIP THROUGH THE MISS FLORIDA
4 PAGEANT.
5 Q THOSE ARE ONLY THE SCHOLARSHIP FUNDS THAT HAVE
6 BEEN AWARDED THROUGH ONE FORM OF THE COMPETITION OR
7 ANOTHER AT MISS FLORIDA?
8 A CORRECT, YES.
9 Q DOES SHE DO ANYTHING WITH SCHOLARSHIPS WITH THE
10 LOCAL PAGEANTS?
11 A IF THERE'S A DISCREPANCY OR IF THERE'S A
12 CHALLENGE, THEN THE YOUNG LADIES MAYBE NOT GETTING HER
13 SCHOLARSHIP, PATTY MAY MAKE A PHONE CALL, BUT MOST OF THE
14 TIME SHE WORKS STRICTLY ON THE STATE LEVEL.
15 Q AND AGAIN, IS THERE ANYTHING IN WRITING THAT
16 DESCRIBES WHAT HER JOB DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES ARE?
17 A NO, NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF.
18 Q THE NEXT PHOTO IS RAY MCLEOD. IT SAYS LEGAL
19 COUNSEL. IS RAY ACTUALLY A MEMBER OF THE MISS FLORIDA
20 SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, INC.'S BOARD?
21 A HE WOULD BE AN EX OFFICIO MEMBER.
22 Q AND IS THERE ANYTHING IN WRITING, BYLAWS OR
23 OTHERWISE, WHAT THE DESCRIPTIONS OF AN EX OFFICIO MEMBER
24 OF THE BOARDS DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES ARE?
25 A NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF.
34
1 Q WAS HE EVER OFFICIALLY ELECTED AN EX OFFICIO
2 MEMBER?
3 A HE WAS -- IF SO, IT WAS BEFORE I WAS ON THE
4 BOARD.
5 Q AND YOU WERE ON THE BOARD ROUGHLY A MONTH OR TWO
6 AFTER IT WAS FORMED?
7 A RIGHT.
8 Q OKAY. SO TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, DURING YOUR TENURE,
9 HE'S NEVER OFFICIALLY BEEN ELECTED?
10 A RIGHT.
11 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECTION. ASKED AND
12 ANSWERED.
13 BY MR. SANDERS:
14 Q AS A LEGAL COUNSEL I BELIEVE I KNOW WHAT RAY
15 MCLEOD MAYBE CALLED UPON TO DO, BUT AS EX OFFICIO BOARD
16 MEMBER, WHAT WOULD BE HIS DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES?
17 A BASICALLY, HE ATTENDS OUR BOARD MEETINGS AND
18 WHEN WE NEED MAYBE SOME LEGAL ADVICE OR COUNSEL, WE WOULD
19 REFER TO HIM.
20 Q DOES HE GET A VOTE?
21 A NO.
22 Q THE NEXT PHOTO IS A PHOTO OF WAYNE DEWITT.
23 IT'S SAYS CPA. IS HE A MEMBER OF THE BOARD?
24 A EX OFFICIO MEMBER.
25 Q SINCE YOUR TENURE OF 2002, HAS HE EVER BEEN
35
1 OFFICIALLY ELECTED AS AN EX OFFICIO MEMBER?
2 A I BELIEVE HE WAS ASKED TO SERVE AS OUR CPA.
3 Q DOES SERVICE AS A CPA ENTITLE YOU TO AN EX
4 OFFICIO POSITION?
5 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
6 THE WITNESS: WE ALLOWED IT SO THAT HE COULD
7 ATTEND OUR MEETINGS, SO WE COULD TALK FINANCIAL
8 MATTERS WITH HIM.
9 BY MR. SANDERS:
10 Q WHEN YOU SAY YOU ALLOWED IT. DOES IT MEAN THAT
11 HE WAS ACTUALLY VOTED ON AS EX OFFICIO MEMBER OR HE'S JUST
12 ALLOWED TO ATTEND MEETINGS?
13 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
14 THE WITNESS: HE'S ALLOWED TO ATTEND THE
15 MEETINGS.
16 BY MR. SANDERS:
17 Q THERE WAS NEVER A VOTE?
18 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECTION, ASKED AND ANSWERED.
19 WITNESS YOU CAN ANSWER.
20 THE WITNESS: NEVER A VOTE FOR HIM TO BE
21 COME THE CPA? IS THAT YOUR QUESTION?
22 BY MR. SANDERS:
23 Q WELL, WAS THERE -- I GUESS I'LL ASK IT
24 DIFFERENT. WAS THERE EVER A VOTE ON CPA AND I THINK YOUR
25 ANSWER IS NO. IS THAT CORRECT?
36
1 A CORRECT.
2 Q OKAY. WAS THERE EVER A VOTE MAKING HIM AN EX
3 OFFICIO MEMBER OF THE BOARD. THAT WAS MY OTHER QUESTION.
4 A I KNOW THAT IT WAS DISCUSSED.
5 MS. KENNEDY: I'M GOING TO OBJECT AGAIN.
6 THE WITNESS: I KNOW THAT IT WAS DISCUSSED.
7 I DON'T RECALL IF IT WAS EVER VOTED UPON.
8 BY MR. SANDERS:
9 Q AND AS THE SECRETARY, DO YOU RECALL TAKING ANY
10 MINUTES WHERE THERE WAS AN OFFICIAL VOTE ON MR. DEWITT'S
11 STATUS?
12 A I DON'T RECALL THAT.
13 Q OKAY. IS THERE ANYTHING IN WRITING WITH REGARDS
14 TO THE JOB DESCRIPTION OR DUTIES OF A CPA FOR THE MISS
15 FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, INC.?
16 A NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF.
17 Q WHO DOES WAYNE DEWITT ANSWER TO?
18 A THE BOARD WORKS VERY CLOSELY WITH MARY.
19 Q THE NEXT PHOTOGRAPH IS OF DAVID GILBERT. IT
20 SAYS UNDERNEATH HIS NAME, STATE FIELD DIRECTOR. HAS A
21 STATE FIELD DIRECTOR BEEN ESTABLISHED BY THE CORPORATION
22 KNOWN AS MISS FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, INC. AS AN
23 OFFICIAL OFFICE OF THAT CORPORATION?
24 A NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF.
25 Q SO THERE WOULD BE NOTHING IN WRITING WITH
37
1 REGARDS TO WHAT HIS JOB DESCRIPTION WOULD BE?
2 A NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF.
3 Q TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, WHAT IS DAVID GILBERT'S JOB
4 DUTIES, RESPONSIBILITIES?
5 A HE WORKS WITH THE JUDGES AT THE STATE PAGEANT.
6 AND AS A FIELD DIRECTOR, HE WOULD ATTEND LOCAL PAGEANTS
7 JUST TO HAVE A STATE PRESENCE, AND ALSO TO MAKE SURE
8 THERE'S NOT ANY PROBLEMS.
9 Q NOW, IS THERE ANYTHING IN WRITING FOR DAVID
10 GILBERT THAT WOULD DESCRIBE FOR HIM HIS DUTIES AND
11 RESPONSIBILITIES AS A FIELD DIRECTOR FOR LOCAL PAGEANTS?
12 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECTION, ASKED AND ANSWERED.
13 THE WITNESS: NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF.
14 BY MR. SANDERS:
15 Q WITHOUT ABOUT ANYTHING IN WRITING WITH REGARD TO
16 HIS RESPONSIBILITIES, HOW DOES HE KNOW WHAT TO TELL THE
17 LOCAL PAGEANTS TO DO AND NOT TO DO?
18 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
19 THE WITNESS: CURRENTLY, WE HAVE A
20 DESCRIPTION, BUT BACK IN 2006, I DON'T RECALL WHAT
21 WAS GIVEN OUT OR WHAT -- WHAT WAS DONE AT THAT
22 TIME.
23 BY MR. SANDERS:
24 Q STARTING ON THE SECOND PAGE AT THE TOP IS MARTHA
25 DEWITT. IT SAYS FIELD DIRECTOR. IS SHE STILL WITH THE
38
1 MISS FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, INC.?
2 A NO, SHE IS NOT.
3 Q WHAT WERE HER DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES?
4 A AS A FIELD DIRECTOR, SHE ATTENDED LOCAL
5 PAGEANTS. SHE WORKED WITH LOCAL PAGEANTS TRYING TO
6 INCREASE THE NUMBER OF LOCAL PAGEANTS THAT WE HAVE.
7 Q NOW, DID SHE HAVE A SPECIFIC AREA THAT SHE WAS
8 RESPONSIBLE FOR?
9 A SHE LIVED IN NORTH FLORIDA. SO THAT'S KIND OF
10 WHERE SHE -- THAT'S WHERE SHE CONCENTRATED AT I GUESS, BUT
11 THEY'RE NOT DESIGNATED TO A SPECIFIC AREA.
12 Q AND AGAIN, I KNOW WE WERE TALKING ABOUT DAVID
13 GILBERT, AND WE HAVE REFERRED TO HIM AS THE STATE FIELD
14 DIRECTOR. AND I BELIEVE YOUR TESTIMONY WAS THAT THERE WAS
15 NOTHING IN WRITING FOR STATE FIELD DIRECTORS. AND I'LL
16 TAKE YOUR ANSWER FOR MISS DEWITT FOR THE NEXT TWO OR THREE
17 THAT I'M GOING TO ASK YOU ABOUT.
18 IS THERE ANYTHING IN WRITING GOVERNING WHAT JUST
19 A REGULAR FIELD DIRECTOR IS SUPPOSED TO DO?
20 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
21 THE WITNESS: CURRENTLY, THERE IS, BUT BACK
22 IN 2006, I DON'T RECALL.
23 BY MR. SANDERS:
24 Q WHAT IS THE CURRENT DESCRIPTION OF WHAT A LOCAL
25 FIELD DIRECTOR WOULD DO?
39
1 A BASICALLY, WORK WITH THE LOCAL PAGEANTS TRYING
2 TO SECURE ADDITIONAL LOCALS, THEIR PRESENT DURING LOCAL
3 INTERVIEWS. THEY'RE PRESENT DURING THE LOCAL PAGEANT.
4 USUALLY, THEY WILL MONITOR THE AUDITOR TO MAKE SURE ALL
5 THE ACCOUNTING IS -- THERE'S NOT ANY QUESTIONS.
6 Q THOSE ARE IN WRITING?
7 A THOSE ARE, YES.
8 Q SHANNON REESE IS THE NEXT PHOTOGRAPH THAT SAYS
9 FIELD DIRECTOR. IS SHE STILL WITH THE MISS FLORIDA
10 SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, INC.?
11 A YES, SHE IS.
12 Q OKAY. WHAT ARE HER DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES
13 AS A FIELD DIRECTOR?
14 A AGAIN, IT WOULD BE THE SAME AS DAVID AND MARTHA
15 BACK IN 2006. CURRENTLY, SHE IS NOT A FIELD DIRECTOR.
16 Q IS SHE STILL ON THE BOARD THEN WHAT IS BEING
17 CALLED THE BOARD?
18 A YES.
19 Q OKAY. IS THERE A REASON WHY SHE STOPPED BEING
20 THE FIELD DIRECTOR?
21 A I THINK IT WAS FOR PERSONAL REASONS.
22 Q NORMA STORMS IS LISTED AS THE NEXT FIELD
23 DIRECTOR. JOB DESCRIPTION THE SAME AS DAVID GILBERT
24 MARTHA DEWITT AND SHANNON REESE?
25 A YES.
40
1 Q DOES SHE HAVE ANY -- WELL, IS SHE STILL A FIELD
2 DIRECTOR NOW?
3 A I'M SORRY.
4 Q IS SHE STILL A FIELD DIRECTOR?
5 A YES.
6 Q DOES SHE HAVE ANY EXTRA JOB DUTIES OR
7 RESPONSIBILITIES?
8 A DURING PAGEANT WEEK, SHE'LL SERVE AS THE
9 HOSTESS.
10 Q PATTY BOLDING IS THE NEXT LISTED FIELD DIRECTOR.
11 IS SHE STILL WITH THE PAGEANT?
12 A YES, SHE IS.
13 Q IS SHE STILL A FIELD DIRECTOR?
14 A YES, SHE IS.
15 Q THE SAME DESCRIPTION FOR HER DUTIES AS NORMA
16 STORM, SHANNON REESE, MARTHA DEWITT AND DAVID GILBERT?
17 A CORRECT.
18 Q IS THERE ANYTHING ADDITIONAL THAT SHE DOES
19 OUTSIDE OF HER FIELD DIRECTORS DUTIES?
20 A NOT REALLY.
21 Q THE NEXT PERSON LISTED IN THE PROGRAM BOOK IS
22 MELINDA STEVENSON. IT SAYS PUBLIC RELATIONS AND MEDIA
23 CHAIR. IS MELINDA STILL WITH THE MISS FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP
24 PAGEANT, INC.?
25 A NO, SHE IS NOT.
41
1 Q WHY DID SHE LEAVE?
2 A PERSONAL REASONS.
3 Q WHEN SHE WAS THERE, WHAT WERE HER DUTIES AND
4 RESPONSIBILITIES?
5 A AS IT STATES, SHE WAS PUBLIC RELATIONS AND MEDIA
6 CHAIRMAN. SHE HANDLED ANY NEWS RELEASES THAT WE NEEDED
7 DURING PAGEANT WEEK. ANY MEDIA QUESTIONS. SHE WAS
8 AVAILABLE ON APPEARANCES WHEN THE YOUNG LADIES MADE
9 APPEARANCES, SO THEY COULD SPEAK TO THE MEDIA.
10 Q NOW, IS THERE ANY OFFICIAL POSITION IN THE
11 CORPORATION LISTING AN OFFICER KNOWN AS PUBLIC RELATIONS
12 AND MEDIA CHAIRMAN?
13 A NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF.
14 Q ANYTHING IN WRITING THAT WOULD DESCRIBE WHAT HER
15 DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES WERE AT THE TIME THAT SHE WAS
16 WORKING WITH THE MISS FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, INC.?
17 A I DON'T RECALL.
18 Q SO THERE MAY HAVE BEEN FOR HER?
19 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
20 THE WITNESS: I DON'T REMEMBER.
21 BY MR. SANDERS:
22 Q OKAY. ARE THERE ANY WRITTEN JOB DESCRIPTIONS
23 FOR THE CURRENT PUBLIC RELATIONS AND MEDIA CHAIRMAN?
24 A NO.
25 Q THE NEXT BOARD MEMBER MENTIONED IS TOM BOYCO.
42
1 IT SAYS DIRECTOR. WHAT WAS TOM'S RESPONSIBILITY AS A
2 DIRECTOR?
3 A TOM WORKED WITH THE TEEN PAGEANT.
4 Q ANY OTHER JOB DESCRIPTION FOR WHAT HE DID TO
5 WORK WITH THE TEEN PAGEANT?
6 A NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF.
7 Q SO HE JUST DID MISCELLANEOUS WORK WITH THE
8 PAGEANT?
9 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
10 THE WITNESS: I DON'T -- I MEAN, HE WORKED
11 WITH THE TEEN PAGEANT COMMITTEE. I DON'T KNOW
12 EXACTLY WHAT HIS RESPONSIBILITIES WERE FOR THAT
13 FOR THAT.
14 BY MR. SANDERS:
15 Q I GUESS I NEED TO ASK THIS QUESTION. WHEN HE'S
16 LISTED AS A DIRECTOR, WAS THAT MEANING HE IS A DIRECTOR OF
17 THE MISS FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, INC. OR DIRECTOR OF
18 THE MISS FLORIDA OUTSTANDING TEEN PAGEANT?
19 A I THINK HIS -- ACCORDING TO THIS, HE WAS LISTED
20 AS A BOARD OF DIRECTOR FOR HERE.
21 Q OKAY. KENDALL JOLLY. WELL, LET ME ASK YOU, IS
22 TOM BOY COULD HE STILL WITH THE MISS FLORIDA PAGEANT?
23 A NO, HE IS NOT.
24 Q WHY DID HE LEAVE?
25 A PERSONAL REASONS.
43
1 Q NOW, TO KENDALL JOLLY. AGAIN, HE'S LISTED AS A
2 DIRECTOR. AND CAN I ASSUME THAT YOUR ANSWER THAT HE'S THE
3 DIRECTOR OF THE MISS FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, THE SAME
4 AS TOM BOYCO?
5 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
6 THE WITNESS: YES.
7 BY MR. SANDERS:
8 Q OKAY. WHAT WERE HIS JOB RESPONSIBILITIES THEN?
9 A HE WORKED WITH THE TEEN PAGEANT ALSO.
10 Q AGAIN, LET ME SAY, IF YOU DON'T KNOW. I DON'T
11 KNOW IS A GOOD ANSWER.
12 A OKAY.
13 Q I WILL TAKE THAT. SO WHEN I ASK YOU QUESTIONS
14 TO FOLLOW-UP ON THINGS IF YOU DON'T KNOW, I'M FINE WITH
15 YOU SAYING THAT. IF THAT'S GOING TO BE YOUR ANSWER.
16 A OKAY.
17 Q OTHER THAN SAYING HE WORKED WITH THE TEEN
18 PAGEANT, DO YOU KNOW OF ANY SPECIFIC DUTIES THAT HE HAD?
19 A NO, I DO NOT.
20 Q IS HE STILL WITH THE MISS FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP
21 PAGEANT, INC.?
22 A NO, HE IS NOT.
23 Q DO YOU KNOW WHY?
24 A STATED PERSONAL REASONS.
25 Q AND I'M JUST GOING TO, DO YOU KNOW WHAT THOSE
44
1 PERSONAL REASONS WERE?
2 A NO, I DON'T.
3 Q THE NEXT PHOTO IS OF KEITH SMITH. HIS TITLE IS
4 CO-EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MFOT, AND IF YOU COULD JUST FOR THE
5 RECORD SAY WHAT MFOT STANDS FOR?
6 A THE MISS FLORIDA OUTSTANDING TEEN.
7 Q WHAT WERE HIS JOB RESPONSIBILITIES?
8 A HE WORKED WITH THE -- WAS A DIRECTOR OF THE TEEN
9 PAGEANT, THE STATE TEEN PAGEANT.
10 Q AND OTHER THAN KNOWING THAT HE WAS A DIRECTOR OF
11 THE TEEN PAGEANT, DO YOU KNOW ANY SPECIFIC DUTIES OR JOBS
12 THAT HE DID?
13 A BASICALLY COORDINATED WITH THE TEN CONTESTANTS,
14 AND WORKED VERY CLOSELY WITH THEM, AND ANYTHING ELSE
15 INVOLVED WITH THE TEEN PAGEANT HE WAS THE -- HE AND MARK
16 WERE THE CO-EXECUTIVE DIRECTORS.
17 Q AND THAT WOULD BE THE NEXT PHOTO, WHICH IS MARC
18 KAGLEIGH?
19 A (RESPONDING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE).
20 Q AND THAT'S M-A-R-C. WHAT WAS MARC'S DUTIES, IF
21 YOU KNOW, AS CO-EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF MFOT?
22 A PRETTY MUCH WHAT KEITH DID. I THINK THEY SHARED
23 THE RESPONSIBILITY. COORDINATING ALL THE PAPERWORK, THE
24 CONTESTANTS, PUTTING TOGETHER THE PRODUCTION OF A SHOW
25 AND --
45
1 Q OTHER THAN THOSE BRIEF DESCRIPTIONS, DO YOU KNOW
2 EXACTLY WHAT THEY DID?
3 A THAT WOULD BE ABOUT ALL THAT I'M AWARE OF.
4 MS. KENNEDY: WHAT?
5 THE WITNESS: THAT'S ALL THAT I'M AWARE OF.
6 MS. KENNEDY: OKAY. SORRY.
7 MR. SANDERS: WHAT DID YOU THINK HE SAID?
8 MS. KENNEDY: I COULDN'T HEAR.
9 MR. SANDERS: YOU LOOKED LIKE YOU WERE IN
10 SHOCK?
11 MS. KENNEDY: I JUST COULDN'T HEAR HIM.
12 BY MR. SANDERS:
13 Q I'M GOING TO TAKE THOSE LAST FOUR ALL TOGETHER.
14 TOM BOYCO, KENDALL JOLLY, KEITH SMITH AND MARK KAGLEIGH,
15 YOU PRETTY MUCH SAID THEY WORKED WITH MISS FLORIDA TEEN
16 PAGEANT. WHAT, IF ANY, DUTIES OR RESPONSIBILITIES DID
17 THEY HAVE WITH THE ACTUAL MISS FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP
18 PAGEANT, INC.?
19 A THEY REALLY DIDN'T. THEY PRETTY MUCH HANDLED
20 THE OUTSTANDING TEEN PROGRAM.
21 Q KEITH SMITH IS HE STILL WITH THE MISS FLORIDA
22 SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, INC.?
23 A NO.
24 Q DO YOU KNOW WHY HE LEFT?
25 A PERSONAL REASONS.
46
1 Q DO YOU KNOW WHAT THOSE PERSONAL REASONS WERE?
2 A NO, I DON'T.
3 Q AND MARK KAGLEIGH, IS HE STILL WITH THE MISS
4 FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, INC.?
5 A NO, HE IS NOT.
6 Q DO YOU KNOW WHY HE LEFT?
7 A PERSONAL REASONS.
8 MS. KENNEDY: WANT A BREAK OR ANYTHING?
9 THE WITNESS: NO, I'M OKAY.
10 MR. SANDERS: I'LL PUT INTO THE RECORD THE
11 CORPORATE ONLINE STATUS OF THE MISS FLORIDA
12 SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, INC. AS ONE. I'LL PUT A ONE
13 ON THERE. AND THEN THE TWO PAGE COLOR EXHIBIT
14 FROM THE PROGRAM BOOK AS TWO.
15 (WHEREUPON, THE REFERRED-TO DOCUMENTS WERE
16 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS EXHIBIT 1 AND 2.)
17 MS. KENNEDY: MAY WE HAVE THE DATES OF
18 THOSE? IS THERE A DATE ON THAT?
19 MR. SANDERS: DOWN ON THE BOTTOM.
20 MS. KENNEDY: IS IT 10/20/06.
21 MR. SANDERS: YES.
22 MS. KENNEDY: IS THERE A DATE ON THAT ONE?
23 MR. SANDERS: IT'S THE 2006 PAGEANT BOOK.
24 MS. KENNEDY: THANK YOU.
25
47
1 BY MR. SANDERS:
2 Q DO YOU KNOW WHO JENNIFER HERRINGTON IS?
3 A YES, I DO.
4 Q COULD YOU DESCRIBE YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH
5 JENNIFER HERRINGTON?
6 A I KNOW JENNIFER THROUGH THE PAGEANTS, THROUGH
7 THE MISS JACKSONVILLE PAGEANT IS WHERE I MET HER. I
8 BELIEVE YOU INTRODUCED ME TO HER.
9 Q DO YOU CONSIDER YOURSELVES TO BE FRIENDS OR HOW
10 WOULD YOU DESCRIBE --
11 A I WOULD SAY FRIENDS.
12 Q DO YOU KNOW MISS HERRINGTON TO BE A TRUTHFUL AND
13 HONEST PERSON?
14 A YES, I DO.
15 Q WHAT DO YOU BASE THAT ON?
16 A SHE'S NEVER GIVEN ME ANY REASONS TO NOT.
17 Q IF JENNIFER HERRINGTON HAD TOLD SOMEONE THAT YOU
18 AND HER WERE WORKING TO TAKE OVER THE MISS FLORIDA PAGEANT
19 TOGETHER, WOULD THAT BE A TRUTHFUL AND HONEST STATEMENT?
20 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
21 THE WITNESS: NO, IT WOULD NOT.
22 BY MR. SANDERS:
23 Q WAS THERE A TIME WHEN MARY SULLIVAN WAS EITHER
24 VYING FOR OR WAS UP FOR A POSITION WITH THE -- I GUESS THE
25 MISS AMERICA ORGANIZATION TO TAKE OVER AS EITHER A
48
1 PRESIDENT OR DIRECTOR OF ALL THE STATE PAGEANTS?
2 A NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF, NO.
3 Q SO YOU'RE NOT AWARE THAT MARY SULLIVAN WAS --
4 YOU WOULDN'T BE AWARE THAT JENNIFER HERRINGTON WOULD IS
5 HAVE SAID THAT YOU AND HER WERE GOING TO COME IN AND TAKE
6 OVER THE PAGEANT ONCE MARY STEPPED UP?
7 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
8 THE WITNESS: SHE NEVER SAID THAT TO MY
9 KNOWLEDGE.
10 BY MR. SANDERS:
11 Q HAVE AT ANY TIME YOU CONSPIRED WITH JENNIFER
12 HERRINGTON TO EITHER GAIN CONTROL OF THE MISS FLORIDA
13 PAGEANT OR TO TAKE OVER MARY SULLIVAN'S JOB?
14 A ABSOLUTELY NOT.
15 Q WHAT, IF ANY, PART DID JENNIFER HERRINGTON
16 PARTICIPATE IN THE CURRENT SITUATION OF THE NORTH FLORIDA
17 SCHOLARSHIP ORGANIZATION NOT HAVING THE MISS JACKSONVILLE
18 FRANCHISE RENEWED?
19 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
20 THE WITNESS: REPEAT THE QUESTION.
21 BY MR. SANDERS:
22 Q I SAID, WHAT, IF ANY, PART DID JENNIFER
23 HERRINGTON PLAY WITH REGARDS TO THE MISS FLORIDA BOARD NOT
24 RENEWING THE MISS JACKSONVILLE PAGEANT WITH THE NORTH
25 FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP ORGANIZATION?
49
1 A SHE DIDN'T HAVE ANY PART.
2 Q AND HOW DO YOU SAY -- WHY DO YOU SAY THAT?
3 A SHE NEVER DISCUSSED IT WITH ME. IT WAS NEVER A
4 SUBJECT AND I'VE NEVER HEARD A BOARD MEMBER MENTION HER
5 NAME THAT SHE HAD CONTACTED THEM. SO --
6 Q DO YOU KNOW IF JENNIFER HERRINGTON AT ONE TIME
7 WAS VYING TO TAKE OVER THE MISS JACKSONVILLE PAGEANT?
8 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
9 THE WITNESS: NO. NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF
10 THAT SHE HAS EVER TRIED TO DO THAT.
11 I BELIEVE THERE WAS AN E-MAIL THAT WAS SENT
12 THAT THE PAGEANT -- THE QUESTIONS WERE TO GO
13 DIRECTED TO HER, AND SO THAT MAY HAVE BEEN
14 CONSTRUED AS HER TRYING TO TAKE OVER, BUT I DON'T
15 THINK SHE ACTUALLY TRIED TO TAKE OVER. I MEAN, IT
16 WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS ON THE WEB SITE. SO.
17 BY MR. SANDERS:
18 Q SO AS A SECRETARY OF THE MISS FLORIDA
19 SCHOLARSHIP ORGANIZATION, INC., THERE WERE NEVER ANYTHING
20 BROUGHT UP ABOUT ANY E-MAILS BETWEEN MARY SULLIVAN AND
21 JENNIFER HERRINGTON ON ABOUT TAKING OVER THE MISS
22 JACKSONVILLE PAGEANT?
23 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
24 THE WITNESS: NO.
25
50
1 BY MR. SANDERS:
2 Q DO YOU HAVE AN E-MAIL ADDRESS?
3 A DO I HAVE AN E-MAIL ADDRESS?
4 Q YES, SIR.
5 A YES, I DID.
6 Q WHAT WOULD THAT E-MAIL ADDRESS BE?
7 A IT'S JKW61 AT AOL DOT COM.
8 Q LET ME SHOW YOU AN E-MAIL FROM MARY SULLIVAN.
9 WELL, LET ME ESTABLISH THIS IN THIS DEPOSITION,
10 MARYCROWNMARY IS WHOSE E-MAIL ADDRESS?
11 A I BELIEVE THAT'S MARY SULLIVAN'S.
12 Q OKAY. IT'S FROM MARY SULLIVAN TO RAY MCLEOD,
13 AND IT'S CC'S JPH ANGEL, WHO IS JPH ANGEL?
14 A I BELIEVE THAT MAYBE JENNIFER HERRINGTON.
15 Q OKAY. RWALKER AT MIAMI?
16 A I BELIEVE THAT WOULD BE RICHARD WALKER.
17 Q LOYPA?
18 A I BELIEVE THAT WOULD BE ROB LOY.
19 Q AND JKW61, YOU'VE INDICATED IS YOU?
20 A CORRECT.
21 Q AND MAMAKIT777?
22 A I BELIEVE THAT'S KITTY PATAPAL.
23 Q LET ME SHOW YOU AN E-MAIL THAT WAS SENT FROM
24 MARY SULLIVAN TO RAY MCLEOD, AND CC'D TO YOU AND OTHER
25 MEMBERS OF THE MISS JACKSONVILLE SCHOLARSHIP ORGANIZATION.
51
1 DO YOU RECALL GETTING THAT?
2 A I BELIEVE THERE WAS SOME CONVERSATION ABOUT IT.
3 I DON'T RECALL.
4 Q YOU DON'T ACTUALLY RECALL RECEIVING THAT OR
5 READING THAT?
6 A YEAH. LIKE I SAID I KNOW THE TOPIC WAS
7 DISCUSSED, BUT --
8 Q WHEN WAS THE TOPIC DISCUSSED?
9 A GOSH MY MEMORY, SOMEWHERE AROUND THIS DATE. IT
10 WAS IN SEPTEMBER.
11 Q AND FOR CLARIFICATION ON THE RECORD, SEPTEMBER
12 OF 2006?
13 A THAT'S WHAT THE DATE IS HERE.
14 MS. KENNEDY: WOULD YOU SAY THE DATE OF THAT
15 E-MAIL, IF YOU HAVE IT?
16 MR. SANDERS: 9/16/2006 AT 5:40 PM.
17 MS. KENNEDY: THANK YOU.
18 BY MR. SANDERS:
19 Q I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU AN OPPORTUNITY TO GO AHEAD
20 AND READ THAT SINCE YOU'VE INDICATED YOU HAVEN'T SEEN
21 THAT?
22 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM. THAT
23 MISCHARACTERIZES HIS TESTIMONY. HE SAID HE DIDN'T
24 RECALL.
25
52
1 BY MR. SANDERS:
2 Q OKAY. DOES THAT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION AS TO
3 WHETHER YOU HAVE SEEN IT OR READ IT BEFORE?
4 A I DON'T RECALL HAVING READ IT. LIKE I SAID I
5 KNOW WE'VE HAD CONVERSATION.
6 Q AND WHEN YOU SAY IT WAS CONVERSATION OR
7 DISCUSSED, WAS THAT AT A BOARD MEETING OR --
8 A MOST LIKELY OVER THE PHONE.
9 Q OVER THE PHONE. AND YOU DON'T RECALL WHO YOU
10 MAY HAVE DISCUSSED THAT WITH OVER THE PHONE?
11 A I BELIEVE IT WAS MARY.
12 Q AND WERE THERE OTHER PEOPLE ON THE LINE OR JUST
13 YOU AND MARY?
14 A NO, JUST ME AND MARY.
15 Q I'M LOOKING AT THE SECOND PARAGRAPH HERE. IT
16 SAYS I HAVE ASSURED JENNIFER AND JEFF THAT THEY WILL HAVE
17 OUR SUPPORT AND ASSISTANCE. DID MARY HAVE THE AUTHORITY
18 TO GIVE JEFF AND JENNIFER THE PAGEANT SUPPORT AND
19 ASSISTANT?
20 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
21 THE WITNESS: YES.
22 BY MR. SANDERS:
23 Q IT SAYS STARTING HERE SAYS JENNIFER IS GOING TO
24 MEET WITH CAMY TOMORROW AND PICK UP THE PAGEANT FILES,
25 PROGRAM DISKS, ET CETERA. DID MARY HAVE ANY OBJECTIONS TO
53
1 JENNIFER PICKING UP THE PAGEANT FILES, PROGRAMS DISKS, ET
2 CETERA FROM CAMY?
3 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM.
4 THE WITNESS: NOT THAT I'M AWARE.
5 BY MR. SANDERS:
6 Q DID SHE HAVE AUTHORITY TO TELL JENNIFER TO GO DO
7 THAT.
8 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
9 THE WITNESS: NO, SHE DID NOT, BUT I DON'T
10 THINK SHE TOLD HER THAT.
11 BY MR. SANDERS:
12 Q WHY DO YOU SAY NO SHE DIDN'T?
13 A BECAUSE THAT'S JUST A STATEMENT. I DON'T THINK
14 MARY -- I THINK SHE WOULD HAVE -- MARY WOULDN'T HAVE TOLD
15 HER TO GO TAKE THE RECORDS. SO --
16 Q NOW, IF YOU LOOK DOWN AT THE LAST PARAGRAPH
17 RIGHT WHERE IT STARTS HERE WITH JENNIFER. IT SAYS
18 JENNIFER WAS LISTED AS THE CED AND WHILE TECHNICALLY
19 RESIGNED TO ACT AS BUSINESS MANAGER THAT WAS NEVER MADE
20 PUBLIC PAST THE EXECUTIVE BOARD, THEREFORE, WE ARE ADDING
21 HER BACK AS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AGAIN, AN EXECUTIVE BOARD
22 DECISION.
23 WAS THERE AN EXECUTIVE BOARD MEETING THAT YOU
24 ATTENDED WHERE JENNIFER HERRINGTON WAS REESTABLISHED AS A
25 CO-EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE MISS JACKSONVILLE PAGEANT?
54
1 A I THINK THAT DECISION CAME FROM THE ORIGINAL
2 STATEMENT ON THE WEB SITE, THAT ALL QUESTIONS WERE BEING
3 REFERRED TO THEM, BUT WE -- I'M NOT SURE IF WE HAD AN
4 EXECUTIVE BOARD MEETING. I DON'T REMEMBER.
5 Q SO THERE COULD HAVE BEEN ONE, YOU JUST DON'T
6 REMEMBER?
7 A I DON'T RECALL, YEAH. I DON'T RECALL TO BE
8 HONEST WITH YOU.
9 Q IF THERE HAD BEEN ONE, YOU WOULD HAVE TAKEN THE
10 MINUTES FOR THAT MEETING AND THERE WOULD BE MINUTES OF
11 THAT MEETING?
12 A SHOULD BE YES, SIR. IT COULD HAVE BEEN A PHONE
13 CALL.
14 Q SO IF IT WAS A PHONE CALL, THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN
15 NO ACTUAL NOTICED OR CALLED MEETING OF THE BOARD OF
16 DIRECTORS?
17 A CORRECT.
18 Q NOW, WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE DIRECTORS
19 THAT ARE LISTED IN TALLAHASSEE AND THEN DIRECTORS THAT ARE
20 LISTED WITH THE 2006 PROGRAM BOOK.
21 I HAD ASKED YOU EARLIER ON HOW MANY BOARDS THERE
22 WERE. THIS SAYS THAT THIS WAS AN EXECUTIVE BOARD
23 DECISION. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE EXECUTIVE BOARD IS AND WHO
24 IT'S COMPRISED OF?
25 A CURRENTLY, THE EXECUTIVE BOARD IS REFERRED TO AS
55
1 RICHARD WALKER, MARY SULLIVAN, MYSELF AND ROB LOY.
2 Q DO YOU KNOW WHO SHE WAS REFERRING TO IN HER
3 E-MAIL THAT THE EXECUTIVE BOARD WAS BACK ON 9/16/2006?
4 A MOST LIKELY RICHARD, ROB, MYSELF AND KITTY
5 PATAPAL.
6 Q NOW, I NOTICE YOU DIDN'T PUT MARY SULLIVAN'S
7 NAME ON THERE?
8 A I'M SORRY, BUT IT IS MARY SULLIVAN TOO.
9 MR. SANDERS: MAKE THAT NUMBER THREE.
10 (WHEREUPON, THE REFERRED-TO DOCUMENT WAS
11 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS EXHIBIT 3.)
12 BY MR. SANDERS:
13 Q I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU ANOTHER SET OF E-MAILS.
14 INITIALLY STARTED OFF WITH AN E-MAIL FROM KEVIN SANDERS ON
15 MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 18, 2006 AT 3:31 P.M TO RAY MCLEOD. AND
16 THE RESPONSE BACK FROM RAY MCLEOD, I'LL ASK YOU TO READ
17 THAT AND TELL ME IF YOU'VE EVER SEEN THAT BEFORE.
18 MS. KENNEDY: ANSWER HIS QUESTION.
19 THE WITNESS: I'M SORRY. WHAT WAS THE
20 QUESTION.
21 BY MR. SANDERS:
22 Q HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THAT E-MAIL BEFORE?
23 A NO, I HAVE NOT.
24 MS. KENNEDY: I OBJECT TO THIS WITNESS BEING
25 QUESTIONED ABOUT THIS EXHIBIT HE HAS NO KNOWLEDGE.
56
1 BY MR. SANDERS:
2 Q THIS E-MAIL WAS PRESENTED BEFORE THE BOARD OF
3 DIRECTORS OR AT ANY MEETING OF THE DIRECTORS TO YOUR
4 KNOWLEDGE?
5 A NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE.
6 Q AND IF IT HAD BEEN, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN
7 REFERENCED BY YOU IN THE MINUTES OF THOSE MEETINGS?
8 A IT WOULD HAVE.
9 Q WERE YOU -- DID YOU EVER BECOME AWARE THAT THERE
10 WERE DISCUSSIONS BETWEEN KEVIN SANDERS AND MARY SULLIVAN
11 OR KEVIN SANDERS, MARY SULLIVAN, RAY MCLEOD ABOUT KEVIN
12 SANDERS TAKING OVER THE JACKSONVILLE PAGEANT?
13 A WAS I AWARE?
14 Q YES, DID YOU EVER BECOME AWARE?
15 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
16 THE WITNESS: I BELIEVE MARY HAD MENTIONED
17 TO ME THAT SHE HAD HAD SOME CONVERSATIONS.
18 BY MR. SANDERS:
19 Q AND WHAT DID SHE SAY ABOUT THOSE?
20 A IT WAS VERY BASIC THAT SHE HAD BEEN HAVING SOME
21 CONVERSATIONS. YOU KNOW, WITH KEVIN SANDERS AND WITH RAY
22 MCLEOD, BUT DIDN'T GO INTO DETAILS.
23 Q DID MARY HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO ENTER INTO
24 DISCUSSIONS AND CONVERSATIONS WITH KEVIN SANDERS WITH
25 REGARDS TO THE MISS JACKSONVILLE PAGEANT?
57
1 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
2 THE WITNESS: YES, SHE DOES.
3 BY MR. SANDERS:
4 Q AND THAT WOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH YOUR JOB
5 DESCRIPTION OF HER WHEN WE INITIALLY STARTED THE
6 DEPOSITION; CORRECT?
7 A CORRECT.
8 MR. SANDERS: THIS WOULD BE NUMBER FOUR.
9 (WHEREUPON, THE REFERRED-TO DOCUMENT WAS
10 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS EXHIBIT 4.)
11 BY MR. SANDERS:
12 Q I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU ANOTHER E-MAIL FROM KEVIN
13 SANDERS TO MARY SULLIVAN AND RAYMOND MCLEOD. THE DATE IS
14 SEPTEMBER 18, 2006 AT 5:11 P.M. IT'S FAIRLY SHORT. YOU
15 CAN READ THAT AND TELL ME IF YOU HAVE EVER SEEN THAT
16 BEFORE.
17 A NO, I HAVE NOT.
18 MS. KENNEDY: THE SAME OBJECTION AS BEFORE.
19 BY MR. SANDERS:
20 Q THAT E-MAIL WAS NEVER BROUGHT UP AT ANY BOARD
21 MEETINGS THAT YOU KNOW OF OR DISCUSSED AT ANY BOARD
22 MEETINGS?
23 A NO, IT WAS NOT.
24 Q DID MARY SULLIVAN EVER DISCUSS THAT E-MAIL WITH
25 YOU OR DESCRIBE ANY THINGS THAT SHE MAY OTHER MAY NOT HAVE
58
1 RESOLVED WITH KEVIN SANDERS AND THE MISS JACKSONVILLE
2 PAGEANT?
3 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
4 THE WITNESS: I DON'T RECALL.
5 BY MR. SANDERS:
6 Q AND IF THIS E-MAIL HAD COME UP AT ANY BOARD
7 MEETINGS, YOU WOULD HAVE MADE REFERENCE TO SUCH IN THE
8 MINUTES?
9 A YES, I WOULD HAVE.
10 MR. SANDERS: THAT WOULD BE NUMBER FIVE.
11 (WHEREUPON, THE REFERRED-TO DOCUMENT WAS
12 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS EXHIBIT 5.)
13 BY MR. SANDERS:
14 Q LET ME SHOW YOU ANOTHER E-MAIL. IT'S A TWO PART
15 E-MAIL. THE FIRST E-MAIL CAME IN FROM MARY CROWN MARY TO
16 KEVSAN1 AT BELLSOUTH DOT NET. DO YOU KNOW WHO KEVSAN1 AT
17 BELLSOUTH DOT NET IS?
18 A I BELIEVE IT'S YOU.
19 Q THAT WOULD BE KEVIN SANDERS?
20 A CORRECT.
21 Q IT'S ALSO CC'D TO RAY MCLEOD. IT'S A TWO PAGE
22 DOCUMENT. I'LL ASK YOU TO LOOK AT THAT, READ IT AND LET
23 ME KNOW IF YOU'VE EVER SEEN THAT BEFORE.
24 A I'VE NEVER SEEN THIS E-MAIL.
25 MS. KENNEDY: SAME OBJECTION AS BEFORE.
59
1 BY MR. SANDERS:
2 Q SO THAT E-MAIL -- NEITHER THE E-MAIL FROM MARY
3 SULLIVAN OR THE RESPONSE FROM KEVIN SANDERS, WAS EVER
4 BROUGHT UP TO ANY BOARD MEETINGS?
5 A CORRECT.
6 Q AND IF IT HAD BEEN BROUGHT UP OR MENTIONED AT A
7 BOARD MEETING, YOU WOULD HAVE REFLECTED THAT IN THE
8 MINUTES, WOULD YOU NOT?
9 A YES.
10 Q I WANT TO LOOK AT THE PART FROM MARY SULLIVAN
11 DOWN HERE. SHE SAYS, I AM PLEASED WE COULD TALK ABOUT THE
12 SITUATION AND RESOLVE MOST OF THE ISSUES.
13 DOES SHE HAVE AUTHORITY TO RESOLVE ISSUES WITH
14 LOCAL PAGEANTS?
15 A YES, SHE DOES.
16 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM.
17 THE WITNESS: YES.
18 BY MR. SANDERS:
19 Q THE NEXT PART OF THAT SENTENCE SAYS, WE VALUE
20 YOUR LONG TIME PARTICIPATION AND WANT TO SEE IT CONTINUE.
21 DO YOU KNOW WHAT SHE MEANT BY THAT?
22 A NO, I DON'T.
23 Q SHE INDICATES I WOULD LIKE TO CONFIRM SOME
24 THINGS THAT WE DISCUSSED TODAY. YOU WILL BE LISTED AS THE
25 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE MISS JACKSONVILLE PAGEANT AND
60
1 WILL EXECUTE A FRANCHISE AGREEMENT FOR THAT PAGEANT ON OR
2 BEFORE OCTOBER 14, 2006.
3 DID YOU, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, RECEIVE A FRANCHISE
4 APPLICATION FROM KEVIN SANDERS FOR THE NORTH FLORIDA
5 SCHOLARSHIP ORGANIZATION BEFORE OCTOBER 14, 2006?
6 A I BELIEVE WE DID.
7 Q IT SAYS THE PAGEANT PREVIOUSLY SCHEDULED FOR
8 OCTOBER 21, 2006 IS NOT GOING TO TAKE PLACE. YOU WILL
9 SCHEDULE THE PRELIMINARY FOR A LATER DATE IN JANUARY,
10 FEBRUARY OR MARCH 2007. IS THAT CORRECT?
11 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
12 THE WITNESS: THAT'S WHAT IT STATES.
13 BY MR. SANDERS:
14 Q OKAY. DO YOU KNOW IF THE PAGEANT WEB SITE --
15 WHEN I SAY THE PAGEANT -- THE MISS FLORIDA PAGEANT WEB
16 SITE WAS CHANGED TO REFLECT THAT KEVIN SANDERS WAS GOING
17 TO BE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE MISS JACKSONVILLE PAGEANT
18 FOR A PAGEANT TO BE HELD IN THE SPRING OF 2007?
19 A I DO NOT RECALL.
20 Q DO YOU RECALL IF THE PAGEANT WEB SITE CHANGED
21 FROM CAMY AND KEVIN SANDERS TO JENNIFER HERRINGTON AND
22 BACK TO KEVIN SANDERS?
23 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
24 THE WITNESS: I DID NOT RECALL THAT EITHER.
25
61
1 BY MR. SANDERS:
2 Q ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE MISS FLORIDA WEB SITE?
3 A YES, I AM.
4 Q WHEN A PERSON IS LISTED AS AN EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
5 ON THE PAGEANT WEB SITE, IS IT THE INTENTION OF THE MISS
6 FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, INC. THAT PERSON IS TO BE
7 CONTACTED BY ALL PROSPECTIVE CONTESTANTS TO PARTICIPATE IN
8 THAT PAGEANT?
9 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
10 THE WITNESS: THAT DEPENDS ON HOW THE
11 EXECUTIVE DIRECTORS SET IT UP. IF SOME OF THEM
12 HAVE A PAGEANT COORDINATOR OR A CONTESTANT
13 COORDINATOR, SO THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR IS NOT
14 ALWAYS CONTACTED.
15 BY MR. SANDERS:
16 Q THAT WOULD ALSO BE REFERENCED ON THE WEB SITE?
17 A COULD BE.
18 Q OKAY. BUT THE INFORMATION ON THE MISS FLORIDA
19 WEB SITE IS INTENDED TO BE CORRECT AND UP-TO-DATE WITH
20 REGARDS TO WHO IS RUNNING THE VARIOUS LOCAL FRANCHISES?
21 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
22 THE WITNESS: WITHIN REASON.
23 BY MR. SANDERS:
24 Q AND THAT IS FOR THE PURPOSE OF ALLOWING
25 POTENTIAL YOUNG WOMEN IN THE VARIOUS LOCAL PAGEANT AREAS
62
1 TO HAVE A CONTACT TO KNOW HOW THE GET INVOLVED IN THAT
2 PAGEANT?
3 A CORRECT.
4 MR. SANDERS: THAT WOULD BE NUMBER SIX.
5 (WHEREUPON, THE REFERRED-TO DOCUMENT WAS
6 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS EXHIBIT 6.)
7 (WHEREUPON, A BRIEF RECESS WAS TAKEN.)
8 BY MR. SANDERS:
9 Q ALL RIGHT. MR. WILLIAMS, WE ARE BACK FROM A
10 SHORT BREAK WE TOOK. DURING THE BREAK I'VE GIVEN YOU ONE,
11 TWO, THREE, FOUR, FIVE, SIX E-MAILS TO REVIEW. HAVE YOU
12 HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THOSE?
13 A YES, I DID.
14 Q HAVE YOU SEEN ANY OF THOSE E-MAILS BEFORE?
15 A NO, I HAVE NOT.
16 MS. KENNEDY: SAME OBJECTION TO THESE
17 E-MAILS.
18 BY MR. SANDERS:
19 Q AND CAN WE AGREE THAT THESE E-MAILS ARE BETWEEN
20 KEVIN SANDERS AND JENNIFER HERRINGTON?
21 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
22 THE WITNESS: THAT'S WHAT IT STATES.
23 BY MR. SANDERS:
24 Q AND I'M JUST GOING TO -- THERE ARE SIX E-MAILS,
25 BUT THEY RUN FROM THE FIRST E-MAIL, WHICH STARTS ON
63
1 TUESDAY, OCTOBER 17, 2006 AT 3:09 P.M. I GUESS I'LL
2 REFERENCE ALL THE DATES. THE SECOND ONE IS TUESDAY,
3 OCTOBER 17, 2006 AT 4:07 P.M. THE THIRD IS TUESDAY,
4 OCTOBER 17, 2006 AT 5:53 P.M. THE FOURTH IS TUESDAY,
5 OCTOBER 17, 2006 AT 7:13 P.M. THE NEXT IS TUESDAY,
6 OCTOBER 17, 2006 AT 9:18 P.M. AND THE FINAL ONE IS
7 THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 21, 2006 AT 5:29 P.M. ARE WE IN
8 AGREEMENT ON THAT?
9 A THAT'S WHAT IT STATES.
10 Q OKAY. ON THE FIRST PAGE, MISS HERRINGTON
11 INDICATES THAT SHE HAD HEARD ABOUT THE PAGEANT NOT BEING
12 RENEWED IN THE NORTH FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP ORGANIZATION.
13 DID YOU INFORM HER OF THAT OR DO YOU KNOW HOW
14 SHE FOUND OUT ABOUT THAT?
15 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
16 THE WITNESS: I DID NOT INFORM HER OF THAT
17 AND I DO NOT KNOW HOW SHE FOUND OUT.
18 BY MR. SANDERS:
19 Q WHEN SHE SAYS, I COULD HAVE HELPED SHED A LITTLE
20 LIGHT ON THE WHOLE PAGEANT THING. DO YOU KNOW WHAT SHE
21 MEANT BY THAT?
22 A NO, I DO NOT.
23 Q IF YOU'LL TURN TO THE SECOND E-MAIL, IN HER
24 E-MAIL TO KEVIN SANDERS, SHE SAYS IT'S NOT JUST A MATTER
25 OF TELLING YOU THINGS, YOU NEED TO SEE PROVE OF WHAT I
64
1 HAVE BEEN TELLING YOU FROM THE BEGINNING. IT WOULD TAKE
2 ME ALL DAY TO WRITE EVERYTHING DOWN AND FRANKLY, I DO NOT
3 HAVE THE TIME.
4 DO YOU KNOW ABOUT WHAT PROOF SHE'S TALKING ABOUT
5 WITH REGARDS TO THE PAGEANT NOT BEING AWARDED TO THE NORTH
6 FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP ORGANIZATION SHE'S TALKING ABOUT?
7 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
8 THE WITNESS: I HAVE NO IDEA.
9 BY MR. SANDERS:
10 Q DO YOU KNOW OF ANY CONSPIRACY OR ANYTHING THAT
11 WAS GOING ON WITH MARY SULLIVAN OR THE ALLEGED BOARD OF
12 THE MISS FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, INC. TO TAKE THE
13 PAGEANT AWAY FROM THE NORTH FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP
14 ORGANIZATION?
15 A NO, THERE WAS NOT.
16 Q AND YOU INDICATED PREVIOUSLY THAT, YOU IN YOUR
17 EXPERIENCE HAVE FOUND JENNIFER HERRINGTON TO BE A TRUTHFUL
18 PERSON. DO YOU BELIEVE IT'S TRUE THAT SHE HAS A LOT OF
19 PROOF WITH REGARD TO SOME KIND OF ALLEGED CONSPIRACY GOING
20 ON IN THE MISS FLORIDA ORGANIZATION TO DEPRIVE THE MISS
21 JACKSONVILLE PAGEANT FROM THE NORTH FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP
22 ORGANIZATION?
23 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
24 THE WITNESS: REPEAT THE QUESTION.
25
65
1 BY MR. SANDERS:
2 Q I PREFACED IT ABOUT BY SAYING YOU HAS ORIGINALLY
3 SAID YOU FOUND HER TO BE A TRUTHFUL AND HONEST PERSON?
4 A EXACTLY.
5 Q SHE'S STATING IN THESE E-MAILS -- AND WE HAVEN'T
6 FINISHED THEM -- THAT APPARENTLY SHE HAS SOME PROOF WITH
7 REGARDS TO GOING ON BY THE INDIVIDUALS, THE BOARD OF
8 DIRECTORS, OF THE MISS FLORIDA ORGANIZATION TO KEEP THE
9 PAGEANT AWAY FROM THE NORTH FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP
10 ORGANIZATION?
11 MS. KENNEDY: I OBJECT TO THE
12 MISCHARACTERIZATION OF THE E-MAILS, LACK OF
13 FOUNDATION AND OBJECT TO THE FORM. I KNOW YOU
14 HAVEN'T ASKED THE QUESTION YET, YOU'VE BEEN
15 TESTIFYING.
16 MR. SANDERS: I'M NOT TESTIFYING. I'M JUST
17 PREFACING.
18 MS. KENNEDY: YOU'RE MISCHARACTERIZING. YOU
19 HAVEN'T ESTABLISHED A FOUNDATION FOR THE E-MAILS.
20 ANYWAY, SO I'M JUST MAKING MY OBJECTION.
21 BY MR. SANDERS:
22 Q DO YOU BELIEVE THAT BASED ON YOUR OPINION OF HOW
23 TRUTHFUL AND HONEST SHE IS, THAT SHE DOES HAVE THAT KIND
24 OF PROOF IN HER POSSESSION?
25 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
66
1 THE WITNESS: NO, I DON'T. I DON'T THINK
2 THAT'S -- NO, I DON'T.
3 BY MR. SANDERS:
4 Q WELL, LET'S LOOK AT THE THIRD PAGE. AGAIN, I'M
5 LOOKING AT JENNIFER HERRINGTON'S E-MAIL TO KEVIN SANDERS.
6 SHE SAYS ON THE FIRST LINE, KEVIN, I'M NOT KIDDING.
7 THERE'S WAY TOO MUCH FOR ME TO PUT IN AN E-MAIL. BESIDES
8 HOW INFORMAL IS THAT?
9 WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE THAT SHE HAD THAT WAS WAY
10 TOO MUCH TO PUT IN AN E HE MAIL WITH REGARDS TO THE
11 SITUATION WITH MISS FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, INC. AND
12 THE NORTH FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP ORGANIZATION?
13 A I HAVE NO --
14 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
15 THE WITNESS: I HAVE NO IDEA.
16 BY MR. SANDERS:
17 Q NOW, ON THE FOURTH E-MAIL, SHE INDICATES THAT
18 SHE HAD RESIGNED AS BUSINESS MANAGER. IT'S ONE, TWO,
19 THREE, FOUR, IT'S THE FIFTH PARAGRAPH DOWN. DO YOU SEE
20 THAT?
21 A (RESPONDING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE).
22 Q SHE SAYS, DO YOU WANT TO KNOW THE REASONS WHY OR
23 MAYBE YOU COULD CARE LESS. BUT FOR THE RECORD AND ONLY
24 JEFF AND EMILY AND NOW YOU KNOW THE REASON. I COULD NOT
25 PERSONALLY BE A PART OF A BOARD THAT TOLD ME ONE THING AND
67
1 THEN TOLD YOU SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
2 WHAT DID -- STRIKE THAT.
3 TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, DID YOU OR MARY OR THE BOARD
4 TELL JENNIFER ANYTHING WITH REGARDS TO HER STATUS WITH THE
5 MISS JACKSONVILLE PAGEANT?
6 A I DID NOT KNOW.
7 Q DO YOU KNOW --
8 A I DON'T RECALL IF ANYONE ELSE DID.
9 Q WAS THERE EVER ANY FORMAL MEETINGS OF THE BOARD
10 THAT WERE PROPERLY CALLED, PROPERLY NOTICED, THAT
11 DISCUSSED AWARDING THE MISS JACKSONVILLE FRANCHISE TO
12 JENNIFER HERRINGTON?
13 A NO, THAT WAS NEVER --
14 Q DO YOU KNOW WHAT THEN SHE COULD BE POSSIBLY
15 SAYING THAT THE BOARD TOLD HER THAT WAS DIFFERENT THAN
16 WHAT WAS TOLD TO KEVIN SANDERS IN THE E-MAILS THAT YOU
17 HAVE --
18 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM WHEN YOU
19 FINISH IT.
20 BY MR. SANDERS:
21 Q YES, WE ALREADY DID THAT. IN THE E-MAILS THAT
22 WERE SENT BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN KEVIN SANDERS AND MARY
23 SULLIVAN?
24 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
25 THE WITNESS: WHAT WAS THE QUESTION AGAIN?
68
1 BY MR. SANDERS:
2 Q DO YOU KNOW OF --
3 MR. SANDERS: COULD YOU JUST READ IT BACK.
4 (WHEREUPON, THE LAST QUESTION WAS READ BY THE
5 REPORTER.).
6 THE WITNESS: NO.
7 (WHEREUPON, THE LAST QUESTION WAS READ BY THE
8 REPORTER.)
9 BY MR. SANDERS:
10 MR. SANDERS: I'LL TRY TO REPHRASE IT.
11 OKAY?
12 MS. KENNEDY: I JUST DIDN'T KNOW IF THAT WAS
13 A CONTINUATION OF YOUR QUESTION.
14 BY MR. SANDERS:
15 Q IT WAS, BUT JUST FOR CLARIFYING THE RECORD I'LL
16 DO IT. WE'VE ALREADY LOOKED AT E-MAILS BETWEEN KEVIN
17 SANDERS AND MARY SULLIVAN WITH REGARDS TO KEVIN SANDERS
18 AND THE NORTH FLORIDA PAGEANT RETAINING THE MISS
19 JACKSONVILLE PAGEANT. DO YOU RECALL THAT?
20 A YES.
21 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM.
22 BY MR. SANDERS:
23 Q TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, WHAT IF ANYTHING, DID EITHER
24 MARY OR THE BOARD SAY TO JENNIFER THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN
25 WHAT IS CONTAINED IN THOSE E-MAILS TO KEVIN SANDERS?
69
1 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
2 THE WITNESS: I'M NOT AWARE OF ANYTHING THAT
3 WAS SAID.
4 BY MR. SANDERS:
5 Q AGAIN, BASED ON YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH JENNIFER
6 HERRINGTON FINDING HER TO BE TRUTHFUL AND HONEST, DO YOU
7 BELIEVE THAT SOMEBODY ON THE BOARD MAY PROMISES TO HER
8 THAT WERE NOT KEEP -- THAT WERE NOT KEPT IN ACCORDANCE
9 WITH WHAT SHE'S DISCUSSING HERE IN THIS E-MAIL?
10 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECTION TO THE FORM.
11 THE WITNESS: I DON'T BELIEVE SO, BUT I HAVE
12 NEVER DISCUSSED IT WITH JENNIFER. I HAVE NO IDEA
13 WHAT SHE IS TALKING ABOUT.
14 BY MR. SANDERS:
15 Q HAVE YOU EVER TALKED WITH JENNIFER HERRINGTON AT
16 ALL ABOUT ANY OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING THE MISS
17 JACKSONVILLE PAGEANT SINCE SEPTEMBER OF 2006?
18 A WE'VE PROBABLY HAD A FEW BRIEF CONVERSATIONS,
19 NOTHING IN DETAIL.
20 Q OKAY. WHAT, IF ANYTHING, DO YOU RECALL WAS
21 DISCUSSED DURING THOSE CONVERSATIONS?
22 A I DON'T RECALL. JUST AN IN GENERAL STATEMENT
23 PROBABLY MADE OR SOMETHING. I DON'T KNOW.
24 Q DID SHE MENTION ANYTHING TO YOU IN THE COURSE OF
25 THAT CONVERSATION OR BY SIX E-MAILS SUCH AS SHE HAS WITH
70
1 KEVIN SANDERS THAT SHE BELIEVED THAT THE BOARD HAD TOLD
2 HER SOMETHING THAT WAS NOT TRUE?
3 A I DON'T RECALL HER EVER MENTIONING THAT.
4 Q I'M GOING TO MAKE THESE SIX PAGES COMPOSITE
5 EXHIBIT SEVEN.
6 (WHEREUPON, THE REFERRED-TO DOCUMENT WAS MARKED
7 FOR IDENTIFICATION AS EXHIBIT 7.)
8 BY MR. SANDERS:
9 Q I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU ANOTHER E-MAIL. IT'S
10 SOMEWHAT SHORT. IT'S FROM I BELIEVE YOU'VE IDENTIFIED IT
11 AS ROB LOY'S E-MAIL ADDRESS TO A TFIXY600 WITH A CC TO
12 MARY CROWN MARY. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THAT E-MAIL BEFORE?
13 A NO, I HAVE NOT.
14 MS. KENNEDY: I'M GOING TO OBJECT ONCE AGAIN
15 TO ANOTHER E-MAIL IS BEING QUESTIONED ON WHEN HE
16 HAS NO KNOWLEDGE.
17 BY MR. SANDERS:
18 Q NOW, I THINK YOU HAD SAID THAT YOU WERE UNAWARE
19 THAT THE WEB SITE HAD BEEN SWITCHED AT SOME POINT IN TIME
20 TO JENNIFER HERRINGTON'S NAME. DO YOU KNOW WHO TFIXEY600
21 IS?
22 A IT'S A GENTLEMAN THAT'S OUR WEB MASTER.
23 Q AND IS IT ROB LOY'S RESPONSIBILITY TO STAY IN
24 TOUCH WITH THE WEB MASTER ABOUT CHANGES?
25 A HE USUALLY IS THE ONE THAT WILL DO THAT.
71
1 Q AND THIS WOULD -- E-MAIL WOULD BE APPEAR TO BE
2 CHANGING THE CONTACT FOR MISS JACKSONVILLE, MISS FIRST
3 COAST TO JENNIFER HERRINGTON AT 890 THOROUGHBRED DRIVE IN
4 ORANGE PARK, DOES IT NOT?
5 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT.
6 THE WITNESS: THAT'S WHAT IT STATES.
7 BY MR. SANDERS:
8 Q OKAY. DO YOU KNOW BY WHAT AUTHORITY ROB HAD TO
9 CHANGE THE CONTACT INFORMATION FOR THE PAGEANT?
10 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM.
11 THE WITNESS: IF ASKED TO DO SO, THEN HE
12 WOULD HAVE FORWARDED THAT INFORMATION TO TIM.
13 BY MR. SANDERS:
14 Q AND WHO WOULD HAVE INSTRUCTED HIM TO DO THAT?
15 A I HAVE NO IDEA.
16 Q HE'S GOT A CC OF IT TO MARY CROWN MARY, THAT
17 WOULD BE MARY SULLIVAN, WOULD SHE BE THE ONE THAT PROBABLY
18 WOULD HAVE ASKED?
19 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
20 THE WITNESS: IT'S A POSSIBILITY.
21 MS. KENNEDY: HE SAID HE HAS NO IDEA.
22 BY MR. SANDERS:
23 Q WELL WOULD ANYBODY HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO TELL
24 ROB TO CHANGE THE WEB SITE?
25 A ANYBODY COULD, YEAH IF WE FELT THE NEED. I'M
72
1 SURE IT WAS BASED AGAIN ON THE ORIGINAL WEB SITE
2 DIRECTION, SO --
3 Q AND THAT E-MAIL IS FROM 9/16/2006 AT 8:27 P.M.
4 THAT WOULD BE NUMBER EIGHT.
5 (WHEREUPON, THE REFERRED-TO WAS MARKED FOR
6 IDENTIFICATION AS EXHIBIT 8.)
7 BY MR. SANDERS:
8 Q LET ME SHOW YOU ANOTHER E-MAIL THAT SAYS SUBJECT
9 MISS JACKSONVILLE. IT'S DATED 9-17-2006, 8:39:19 A.M.
10 FROM MARY CROWN MARY TO JPH ANGEL. I'LL ASK YOU TO LOOK
11 AT THAT. READ IT AND TELL ME IF YOU'VE EVER SEEN IT
12 BEFORE?
13 MS. KENNEDY: OFF THE RECORD FOR ONE SECOND.
14 THE WITNESS: I'VE NEVER SEEN THIS E-MAIL.
15 MS. KENNEDY: I'LL MAKE THE SAME OBJECTION
16 TO THIS E-MAIL.
17 BY MR. SANDERS:
18 Q LET ME JUST POINT YOUR ATTENTION ON THIS E-MAIL
19 TO THE SECOND PARAGRAPH HERE. IT SAYS THIS IS MY
20 RECOMMENDATION. I WOULD MEET WITH THEM AND PICK UP
21 RECORDS. I WOULD THEN CONSIDER ONLY HOLDING THE MISS
22 JACKSONVILLE TITLE AND MISS JACKSONVILLE OUTSTANDING TEEN
23 TITLE AS OPPOSED TO TRYING TO DO FOUR TITLES. THAT WOULD
24 RELEASE. PERHAPS WE COULD ENCOURAGE SOMEONE ELSE IN THE
25 AREA TO PICK UP THAT TITLE.
73
1 AGAIN, THAT IS WITHIN THE POWERS AND THE
2 AUTHORITY OF MARY SULLIVAN TO DISCUSS FRANCHISES WITH
3 EXECUTIVE DIRECTORS?
4 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
5 THE WITNESS: SHE'S MAKING A RECOMMENDATION
6 AND YES, SHE CAN DO THAT.
7 BY MR. SANDERS:
8 Q AND DID YOU GET THE GIST FROM THIS READING OF
9 THIS E-MAIL THAT SHE WAS TRYING TO SET JENNIFER UP AS THE
10 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR FOR THE MISS JACKSONVILLE PAGEANT ON
11 9-17-2006?
12 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
13 THE WITNESS: I THINK SHE WAS JUST KIND OF
14 PUTTING JENNIFER AT EASE AFTER THE STATEMENT FROM
15 THE WEB SITE THAT JENNIFER AND JEFF WOULD BE THE
16 ONE TO CONTACT. I THINK JENNIFER WAS JUST A
17 LITTLE OVERWHELMED AS TO WHAT DO I NEED TO DO. I
18 THINK MARY WAS JUST MAKING SOME STATEMENTS TO PUT
19 HER AT EASE.
20 MR. SANDERS: THAT WOULD BE NUMBER NINE.
21 (WHEREUPON, THE REFERRED-TO DOCUMENT WAS
22 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS EXHIBIT 9.)
23 BY MR. SANDERS:
24 Q BEFORE I FINISH WITH NINE, WAS THAT E-MAIL EVER
25 BROUGHT UP AT ANY BOARD MEETINGS OR ANY OFFICIAL MEETINGS
74
1 OF THE MISS FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT?
2 A NO, IT WAS NOT.
3 Q AND IF IT HAD BEEN BROUGHT UP IT WOULD HAVE BEEN
4 REFERENCED IN THE MINUTES BY YOU?
5 A YES, IT WOULD HAVE.
6 Q OKAY. LET ME SHOW YOU ANOTHER E-MAIL. IT SAYS,
7 AGAIN, SUBJECT: MISS JACKSONVILLE 9-17-2006 AT 9:14 A.M.
8 FROM JPH ANGEL TO MARY CROWN MARY. I'LL ASK YOU TO READ
9 THAT AND LET ME KNOW IF YOU'VE EVER SEEN THAT BEFORE.
10 A I'VE NEVER SEEN THIS E-MAIL.
11 MS. KENNEDY: SAME OBJECTION TO THIS E-MAIL.
12 BY MR. SANDERS:
13 Q THIS E-MAIL WAS NEVER BROUGHT UP BEFORE THE
14 BOARD OF DIRECTORS OR MENTIONED BY MARY AT ANY MEETINGS?
15 A NO, IT WAS NOT.
16 Q AND IF IT HAD BEEN, AS SECRETARY, YOU WOULD HAVE
17 REFLECTED THAT IN THE MINUTES?
18 A YES, SIR.
19 Q AND AGAIN, THIS E-MAIL WOULD SEEM TO BE JENNIFER
20 HERRINGTON SETTING UP OR TRYING TO ESTABLISH A PAGEANT AND
21 CONTACTING THE LOCAL PAGEANT TITLE HOLDERS, DOES IT NOT?
22 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
23 THE WITNESS: IT COULD SEEM THAT WAY.
24 BY MR. SANDERS:
25 Q AND SHE WAS DOING THAT BASED ON AUTHORITY FROM
75
1 MARY SULLIVAN IN PREVIOUS E-MAILS; IS THAT CORRECT?
2 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM.
3 THE WITNESS: I WOULD THINK SHE WAS PROBABLY
4 DOING IT BASED ON WHAT WAS ON THE WEB SITE THAT
5 SHE AND JEFF WERE ALL DIRECTIONS. EVERYTHING
6 NEEDED TO GO TO JENNIFER AND JEFF, SO I THINK
7 THAT'S WHY SHE STARTED THE BALL ROLLING.
8 MR. SANDERS: THAT WOULD BE NUMBER TEN.
9 (WHEREUPON, THE REFERRED-TO DOCUMENT WAS
10 MARKED AS IDENTIFICATION AS EXHIBIT 10.)
11 BY MR. SANDERS:
12 Q LET ME SHOW YOU ANOTHER E-MAIL DATED -- WELL,
13 SUBJECT IS PAGEANT -- AND PAGEANT -- SORRY. I WANT TO
14 READ IT VERBATIM. SUBJECT IS PAGEANT, AND BUSINESS
15 MANAGER, DATE 9-19-2006 AT 7:57 P.M. FROM JPH ANGEL TO
16 MARY CROWN MARY, WITH CC'S TO INCLUDE YOU.
17 I'LL ASK YOU IF YOU REMEMBER RECEIVING THAT
18 E-MAIL?
19 A YES, I BELIEVE I'VE SEEN THIS E-MAIL.
20 Q AND DO YOU RECALL SEEING IT I GUESS BECAUSE IT
21 WAS CC'D A COPY TO YOU OR WAS IT BROUGHT TO YOUR ATTENTION
22 AT SOME OTHER TIME?
23 A IT WOULD HAVE BEEN AT THIS TIME.
24 Q AND THE TIME OF THE E-MAIL, WHICH IS 9-19-2006?
25 A (RESPONDING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE).
76
1 Q WAS THIS E-MAIL EVER BROUGHT BEFORE ANY MEETINGS
2 OF MISS FLORIDA TO INCLUDE BOARD OR BOARD OF DIRECTORS
3 BEING DISCUSSED.
4 A I DON'T BELIEVE IT WAS.
5 Q IF IT HAD BEEN, YOU WOULD HAVE REFLECTED THAT IN
6 THE MINUTES?
7 A (RESPONDING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE).
8 Q NOW, I'M GOING TO POINT YOU TO I GUESS IT'S THE
9 FOURTH PARAGRAPH DOWN. SHE INDICATES HERE, I HAVE NOTICED
10 THAT MY NAME AND ADDRESS ARE LISTED UNDER THE MISS FIRST
11 COAST PAGEANT AND THE MISS FLORIDA WEB SITE AND KEVIN'S
12 WITH MY ADDRESS LISTED UNDER MISS JACKSONVILLE.
13 DO YOU KNOW IF THE MISS FLORIDA WEB SITE WAS
14 CHANGED TO REFLECT THAT KEVIN SANDERS WAS LISTED UNDER
15 MISS JACKSONVILLE AND JENNIFER HERRINGTON WAS LISTED AS
16 THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF MISS FIRST COAST?
17 A I DON'T RECALL THAT.
18 Q NOW, IN THIS LETTER, SHE INDICATES SHE'S NOT
19 GOING TO BE FILING A FRANCHISE AGREEMENT, DOES SHE NOT?
20 A I BELIEVE THAT STATES THAT.
21 Q AND SHE ALSO RESIGNED AS BUSINESS MANAGER?
22 A I BELIEVE IT STATES THAT ALSO.
23 Q I'M CURIOUS AS TO -- I'M GOING TO READ THIS ONE
24 SPOT RIGHT HERE WHERE IT SAYS YOU, MARY. IT SAYS YOU,
25 MARY, PERSONALLY ALONG WITH ROB, KEITH, RICHARD AND KITTY
77
1 TOOK A CHANCE ON ME AS BUSINESS MANAGER WHEN MY TITLE
2 HOLDER WAS CROWNED UNDER FALSE PRETENSE. DO YOU KNOW WHAT
3 SHE'S TALKING ABOUT A TITLE HOLDER BEING CROWNED UNDER
4 FALSE PRETENSE?
5 A I WOULD ASSUME IT WOULD BE THE MISS FLORIDA THAT
6 WAS CROWNED THAT YEAR.
7 Q DO YOU KNOW WHY SHE SAYS THE TITLED HOLDER WAS
8 CROWNED UNDER FALSE PRETENSE?
9 A I BELIEVE HER SCHOOLING RECORDS WERE NOT
10 PRESENTED CORRECTLY FROM THE LOCAL PAGEANT.
11 Q HAS ANYBODY FROM THE BOARD OR MARY SULLIVAN OR
12 ANYBODY RELATED TO THE MISS FLORIDA PAGEANT EVER ACCUSED
13 THE MISS JACKSONVILLE PAGEANT OR THE NORTH FLORIDA
14 SCHOLARSHIP ORGANIZATION OF IMPROPERLY SUBMITTING SCHOOL
15 TRANSCRIPTS OR PRESENTING A TITLE HOLDER UNDER FALSE
16 PRETENSES?
17 A I DON'T THINK IT WAY ACCUSED, BUT THE RECORDS
18 WERE INCORRECT, SO I DON'T THINK IT WAS TRUTH -- TRUTHFUL
19 WAS CORRECT -- THAT THEY WERE INCORRECT.
20 Q NOW, SOMETHING COULD BE INCORRECT WITHOUT THE
21 KNOWLEDGE OF SOMEBODY AND THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY'RE
22 PRESUMED UNDER FALSE PRETENSE, DOES IT?
23 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM. YOU CAN
24 ANSWER.
25 THE WITNESS: OKAY.
78
1 BY MR. SANDERS:
2 Q IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT?
3 A I GUESS IT COULD BE A FAIR STATEMENT.
4 Q OKAY. DO YOU KNOW WHY SHE WOULD USE THE TERM
5 FALSE PRETENSES?
6 A I WOULD HAVE NO IDEA.
7 Q AGAIN, IN YOUR CONVERSATIONS WITH MISS
8 HERRINGTON, DID YOU EVER DISCUSS THE SITUATION ABOUT THE
9 SCHOOL RECORDS OF THE FORMER MISS FLORIDA?
10 A NO, I DID NOT.
11 Q DID YOU AND HER EVER TALK ABOUT SUCH BEING
12 PRESENTED UNDER FALSE PRETENSES?
13 A I DON'T RECALL.
14 Q DO YOU KNOW IF SHE HAD HAD THAT CONVERSATION
15 WITH MARY SULLIVAN OR ANYBODY ELSE RELATED TO THE MISS
16 FLORIDA PAGEANT?
17 A NO, I DID NOT.
18 MR. SANDERS: THAT'S NUMBER 11.
19 (WHEREUPON, THE REFERRED-TO DOCUMENT WAS
20 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS EXHIBIT 11.)
21 BY MR. SANDERS:
22 Q I DON'T KNOW IF I'VE ASKED IF I'M BEING
23 REDUNDANT. WAS THIS LETTER EVER SUBMITTED BEFORE THE
24 BOARD?
25 A NO, IT WAS NOT.
79
1 MS. KENNEDY: ASKED AND ANSWERED.
2 Q OKAY. I WAS JUST MAKING SURE. LET ME SHOW YOU
3 ANOTHER E-MAIL DATED SEPTEMBER 20, 2006 AT 3:35 P.M. FROM
4 MARY CROWN MARY TO JPH ANGEL. IT WOULD SEEM TO ME TO BE A
5 RESPONSE TO HER E-MAIL THAT WE JUST REVIEWED. BUT I'M
6 GOING TO GIVE YOU AN OPPORTUNITY TO READ THAT?
7 MS. KENNEDY: AND GIVE ME AN OPPORTUNITY TO
8 OBJECT.
9 THE WITNESS: NO, I HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS E-
10 MAIL.
11 MS. KENNEDY: I OBJECT TO THAT E-MAIL AS
12 WELL.
13 BY MR. SANDERS:
14 Q NOW, WAS THIS E-MAIL EVER BROUGHT UP BEFORE THE
15 BOARD OR ANY MEETING OF ANY REPRESENTATIVES OF THE MISS
16 FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, INC.?
17 A NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF, NO.
18 Q AND IF IT HAD, YOU WOULD HAVE RECORDED MINUTES
19 IN REFERENCED THAT?
20 A YES.
21 Q LET ME POINT OUT A STATEMENT HERE IN MARY'S
22 REPLY. IT SAYS WE DISCUSSED THAT RAY AND I HAD SPOKEN
23 WITH KEVIN AND HE STATED HE WOULD CONTINUE TO DO THE MISS
24 JACKSONVILLE PAGEANT, BUT NOT MISS FIRST COAST. IF FOR
25 SOME REASON THAT KEVIN DECIDED DIFFERENTLY OR BY
80
1 OCTOBER 14 HE DID NOT SUBMIT A FRANCHISE AGREEMENT, IT WAS
2 AGREED THAT MISS JACKSONVILLE TITLE WOULD BE AVAILABLE.
3 IS THAT WHAT THAT SAYS?
4 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE DOCUMENT. THE
5 DOCUMENT SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.
6 THE WITNESS: THAT'S WHAT IT SAYS.
7 BY MR. SANDERS:
8 Q OKAY. AND THE LANGUAGE THERE WAS CLEAR AND
9 UNAMBIGUOUS WITH REGARDS TO THE STATEMENT MADE BY MARY
10 SULLIVAN?
11 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
12 THE WITNESS: I WOULD SAY SO.
13 BY MR. SANDERS:
14 Q IF YOU LOOK RIGHT DOWN HERE, IT SAYS I CALLED
15 KEITH THIS MORNING TO SEE IF YOU COULD SHED SOME LIGHT ON
16 YOUR DECISION. DID YOU RECEIVE A CALL FROM MARY SULLIVAN
17 WITH REGARDS TO THE E-MAIL THAT JENNIFER HERRINGTON HAD
18 SENT OUT?
19 A THERE'S A POSSIBILITY. I DON'T RECALL.
20 Q NOW, WHY DO YOU THINK MARY SULLIVAN WOULD HAVE
21 CALLED YOU TO SEE IF YOU COULD SHED LIGHT ON HER DECISION?
22 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
23 THE WITNESS: SHE MAY HAVE THOUGHT THAT I
24 TALKED TO JENNIFER.
25
81
1 BY MR. SANDERS:
2 Q WAS THAT BECAUSE YOU AND JENNIFER TALK OFTEN?
3 A WE DON'T TALK OFTEN, BUT I DO TALK TO JENNIFER
4 OCCASIONALLY.
5 Q SO WERE YOU ABLE TO SHED ANY LIGHT TO THE BEST
6 OF YOUR RECOLLECTION?
7 A NOT -- NO, I DON'T REMEMBER.
8 Q WHAT WAS -- I KNOW I ASKED THIS QUESTION A
9 LITTLE EARLIER -- BUT NOW, YOU'VE LOOKED AT THESE E-MAILS.
10 I BELIEVE YOU HAD SAID THAT YOU WERE NOT AWARE THAT
11 JENNIFER HERRINGTON WAS VYING FOR THE MISS JACKSONVILLE
12 PAGEANT. HAS REVIEWING ANY OF THESE E-MAILS CHANGED YOUR
13 THOUGHTS ON THAT?
14 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM. GO AHEAD.
15 THE WITNESS: I THINK SHE WAS PICKING UP
16 AGAIN FROM THE DIRECTION OF THE WEB SITE. WE WERE
17 JUST TRYING TO DO GOOD WITH THE SYSTEM, AND WE
18 KNEW THERE HAD TO BE A PAGEANT AND THE DIRECTIONS
19 SAID THAT JENNIFER AND JEFF WOULD BE DOING THAT.
20 I THINK SHE WAS JUST PURSUING THAT.
21 BY MR. SANDERS:
22 Q SO WHEN, IF EVER, BETWEEN I GUESS SEPTEMBER OF
23 '06 AND LET'S JUST SAY NOVEMBER OF '06, DID YOU EVER
24 DISCOVER THAT JENNIFER HERRINGTON WAS OR WAS NOT IN
25 CONTENTION TO BE THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE MISS
82
1 JACKSONVILLE PAGEANT?
2 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
3 THE WITNESS: REPEAT THE QUESTION.
4 BY MR. SANDERS:
5 Q I WAS SAYING -- AGAIN, I'M JUST ASKING THIS
6 QUESTION BASED ON YOUR PREVIOUS TESTIMONY. WHEN BETWEEN
7 SEPTEMBER OF '06 AND NOVEMBER OF '06, DID YOU EVER BECOME
8 AWARE THAT JENNIFER HERRINGTON WAS ACTING AS THE EXECUTIVE
9 DIRECTOR OF THE MISS JACKSONVILLE PAGEANT?
10 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
11 THE WITNESS: I DON'T RECALL. AGAIN, FROM
12 THE DIRECTION OF THE WEB SITE EVERYTHING WAS TO BE
13 DIRECTED TO HER IMMEDIATELY SO, BUT I NEVER WENT
14 TO THE WEB SITE.
15 BY MR. SANDERS:
16 Q BUT THE WEB SITE CHANGED, DID IT NOT?
17 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT.
18 THE WITNESS: NO, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE MISS
19 JACKSONVILLE WEB SITE.
20 BY MR. SANDERS:
21 Q THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING THAT WEB SITE CHANGED --
22 A YEAH.
23 Q -- TAKING THE DIRECTIONS BACK OFF --
24 A OKAY.
25 Q -- DID IT NOT?
83
1 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
2 THE WITNESS: I HAVE NO IDEA.
3 BY MR. SANDERS:
4 Q SO YOU WOULDN'T KNOW WHEN THE MISS JACKSONVILLE
5 WEB SITE WOULD HAVE CHANGED?
6 A NO, SIR.
7 Q AND WE HAVE REVIEWED AN E-MAIL BETWEEN KEVIN
8 SANDERS AND MARY SULLIVAN IN WHICH MARY SULLIVAN, AS A
9 CONDITION TO KEVIN SANDERS HAVING THE MISS JACKSONVILLE
10 PAGEANT WAS TO CHANGE THE WEB SITE. WAS IT NOT?
11 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
12 THE WITNESS: I BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT IT
13 STATED.
14 BY MR. SANDERS:
15 Q OKAY. AND THE REPLY FROM KEVIN SANDERS WAS THE
16 WEB SITE HAD BEEN CHANGED AS OF THE DATE OF THAT E-MAIL?
17 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM.
18 THE WITNESS: I BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT IT
19 STATES.
20 BY MR. SANDERS:
21 Q SO OTHER THAN THE WEB SITE, WHICH IS YOUR
22 TESTIMONY, YOU KNOW OF NO REASON WHY JENNIFER HERRINGTON
23 WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT SHE WAS EITHER BEING CONSIDERED
24 FOR THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE MISS JACKSONVILLE
25 PAGEANT OR WAS ACTUALLY ACTING AS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR.
84
1 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
2 THE WITNESS: I DON'T RECALL.
3 MR. SANDERS: THAT WOULD BE NUMBER 12.
4 (WHEREUPON, THE REFERRED-TO DOCUMENT WAS
5 MARKED AS IDENTIFICATION AS EXHIBIT 12.)
6 BY MR. SANDERS:
7 Q LET ME SHOW YOU WHAT INDICATES IS THE MISS
8 FLORIDA EXECUTIVE BOARD OF DIRECTORS MEETING SEPTEMBER 23,
9 2006. IT SAYS HOME OF MARY SULLIVAN, MIAMI, FLORIDA.
10 I'LL ASK YOU IF YOU RECOGNIZE THAT DOCUMENT?
11 A YES, I DO.
12 Q AND WHAT IS THAT DOCUMENT?
13 A IT WOULD BE THE MINUTES.
14 Q THAT WOULD BE THE MINUTES OF THAT MEETING --
15 THAT WOULD BE.
16 A (RESPONDING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE).
17 Q AND IF YOU'LL -- BLESS YOU -- LOOK AT THE SECOND
18 PAGE, IT TALKS ABOUT FRANCHISES THAT WERE PRESENTED FOR
19 APPROVAL AS FOLLOWS. IT SAYS JACKSONVILLE TABLE PENDING
20 DISCUSSION AND INPUT FROM FULL BOARD IN OCTOBER AND
21 POSSIBLE DISCUSSION WITH KEVIN SANDERS.
22 DO YOU SEE THAT?
23 A (RESPONDING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE).
24 Q OKAY. WHAT, IF ANY, ADDITIONAL DISCUSSION WAS
25 HAD AT THAT MEETING WITH REGARDS TO THE TABLING OF THE
85
1 JACKSONVILLE FRANCHISE?
2 A I DON'T THINK THERE WAS ANY DISCUSSION. I MEAN,
3 I THINK IT WAS BROUGHT UP AND I GUESS BECAUSE OF SOME OF
4 THE PENDING ISSUES, IT WAS SAID, LET'S TABLE IT UNTIL I
5 BELIEVE OCTOBER.
6 Q WHAT WERE THE PENDING ISSUES?
7 A OH GOSH, I DON'T RECALL. I THINK THERE WAS SOME
8 CONCERN OF WHAT HAD HAPPENED, YOU KNOW, WITH THE WEB SITE
9 AND YOU ALL STEPPING DOWN AND SO FORTH OR KEVIN SANDERS
10 STEPPING DOWN.
11 Q BUT ALL OF THAT WAS PRIOR TO THE CORRESPONDENCE,
12 AND THE E-MAILS THAT WENT BACK AN FOURTH BETWEEN KEVIN
13 SANDERS AND RAY MCLEOD WITH REGARDS TO THE PAGEANT. IS
14 THAT CORRECT?
15 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
16 THE WITNESS: I DON'T -- I DON'T RECALL
17 BECAUSE I DON'T -- THIS IS SEPTEMBER 23. AT THAT
18 POINT, WE WOULDN'T HAVE SEEN THOSE E-MAILS.
19 BY MR. SANDERS:
20 Q AND THOSE E-MAILS WEREN'T BROUGHT UP AT THAT
21 MEETING, WERE THEY?
22 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECTION, ASKED AND ANSWERED.
23 THE WITNESS: NO.
24 BY MR. SANDERS:
25 Q AT ANY TIME, DID MARY AT THAT MEETING SUGGEST
86
1 THAT THERE WERE E-MAILS BETWEEN KEVIN SANDERS AND RAY
2 MCLEOD WITH REGARDS TO RESOLVING ISSUES ABOUT THE
3 JACKSONVILLE PAGEANT?
4 A SHE MAY HAVE MADE A REFERENCE TO THEM, WHICH
5 COULD BE THE REASON WHY WE SAID PENDING, AND --
6 Q BUT THAT'S NOT REFERENCED IN YOUR MINUTES, IS
7 IT?
8 A NO, IT'S NOT. AND I DON'T RECALL FOR SURE IF
9 THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED.
10 Q DO YOU HAVE ANY FIRM RECOLLECTION OF WHAT WAS
11 DISCUSSED WITH REGARDS TO THE JACKSONVILLE PAGEANT AND WHO
12 SAID WHAT?
13 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
14 THE WITNESS: NO, SIR, I DON'T.
15 BY MR. SANDERS:
16 Q SO THESE MINUTES ARE THE BEST REFLECTION OF WHAT
17 WAS DISCUSSED THAT DAY?
18 A YES.
19 Q OKAY.
20 MR. SANDERS: THAT WOULD BE 13.
21 (WHEREUPON, THE REFERRED-TO DOCUMENT WAS
22 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS EXHIBIT 13.)
23 BY MR. SANDERS:
24 Q LET ME SHOW YOU WHAT IS TITLED MISS FLORIDA
25 PAGEANT BOARD OF DIRECTORS MEETING, OCTOBER 13, 2006,
87
1 ORLANDO, FLORIDA, AND I'LL ASK YOU TO LOOK AT THOSE AND
2 SEE IF YOU RECOGNIZE THOSE.
3 A THEY APPEAR TO BE MINUTES, THAT APPEAR --
4 Q YOU WERE ABSENT FROM THAT MEETING?
5 A YES, I WAS.
6 Q DO YOU KNOW WHO TOOK THE MINUTES OF THAT
7 MEETING?
8 A I BELIEVE RICHARD WALKER.
9 Q SO YOU WOULDN'T HAVE ANY PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE OF
10 WHAT MAY HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED AT THAT MEETING?
11 A CORRECT.
12 Q DID ANYBODY TALK TO YOU ABOUT WHAT WAS BEING
13 DISCUSSED AT THAT MEETING AFTER THE MEETING?
14 A I DON'T RECALL, NO.
15 Q OKAY. SO YOU DON'T RECALL ANY CONVERSATIONS
16 ABOUT THAT MEETING WITH MARY SULLIVAN OR RICHARD WALKER OR
17 ANYBODY ELSE ON THE BOARD?
18 A IF ANYTHING, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN WITH MARY AND IT
19 WAS VERY BRIEF, BUT I DIDN'T KNOW THE DETAILS. I DON'T
20 RECALL THE SPECIFICS.
21 Q NOW, IF YOU LOOK ON THE SECOND PAGE, IT SAYS
22 LIST OF FRANCHISES THAT THE EXECUTIVE BOARD APPROVED TO
23 DATE WAS ANNOUNCED. THE VERY LAST FRANCHISE, THERE'S
24 RIVER CITY. WHO IS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTIVE OF THE RIVER
25 CITY PAGEANT?
88
1 A AT THIS TIME, I WOULD ASSUME IT WAS PROBABLY
2 RUTH SIDBURY.
3 THE WITNESS: YES, BUT I DON'T RECALL FOR
4 SURE WHO IT WAS.
5 BY MR. SANDERS:
6 Q AND WHAT FOUNDATION DOES SHE RUN?
7 A THE CORRECT TITLE OF IT, I DO NOT KNOW.
8 Q WOULD THAT BE THE JACKSONVILLE SCHOLARSHIP
9 FOUNDATION, DOES THAT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION
10 COLLECTION?
11 A SOMEWHERE ALONG THOSE LINES.
12 Q I'LL JUST POINT OUT IN THE MINUTES BELOW THAT,
13 IT SAYS JACKSONVILLE SCHOLARSHIP FOUNDATION, RUTH SIDBURY
14 LISTED AS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR. DO YOU SEE THAT?
15 A OKAY.
16 Q DOES THAT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION?
17 A YES.
18 Q OKAY. SO RUTH'S RIVER CITY PAGEANT HAD ALREADY
19 BEEN APPROVED WHEN THERE WAS A CONFLICT ACCORDING TO THESE
20 MINUTES FOR TWO -- FOR THE TWO SUBMISSIONS FOR THE MISS
21 JACKSONVILLE FRANCHISE. IS THAT CORRECT?
22 A ACCORDING TO THESE RECORDS.
23 Q OKAY. SO RUTH ALREADY HAD ONE PAGEANT, AND THE
24 NORTH FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP ORGANIZATION HAD NO PAGEANTS AT
25 THAT POINT?
89
1 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
2 THE WITNESS: I WOULD SAY YEAH.
3 BY MR. SANDERS:
4 Q NOW, IT SAYS IN THERE. IT SAYS THERE WAS NO ONE
5 WHO INDICATED THEY WERE IN FAVOR OF AWARDING THE FRANCHISE
6 TO KEVIN. DO YOU KNOW WHY?
7 A NO, I DON'T.
8 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
9 BY MR. SANDERS:
10 Q YOU NEVER DISCUSSED THAT WITH ANYBODY AS TO THE
11 OBJECTIONS TO KEVIN SANDERS OR THE NORTH FLORIDA
12 SCHOLARSHIP ORGANIZATION CONTINUING TO RUN THE MISS
13 JACKSONVILLE PAGEANT?
14 A THEY MAY HAVE DISCUSSED IT AT THE MEETINGS, BUT
15 I WASN'T THERE, SO --
16 Q AND YOU'VE NEVER DISCUSSED IT WITH ANYBODY OR
17 TALKED ABOUT IT AFTERWARDS WHAT THE ULTIMATE DECISION WAS
18 WITH REGARDS TO NOT AWARDING --
19 A NO, I DID NOT. THE DECISION WAS MADE AND WE
20 JUST MOVED ON.
21 Q NOW, IT SAYS RICHARD -- I BELIEVE THIS IS ONE OF
22 THE LAST SENTENCES -- IT SAYS RICHARD INDICATED THAT THE
23 EXECUTIVE BOARD WOULD TAKE ALL COMMENTS UNDER
24 CONSIDERATION AND THAT THE EXECUTIVE BOARD HOPED TO HAVE
25 AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK TO KEVIN PRIOR TO THE START OF THE
90
1 FRANCHISE MEETING.
2 TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, AS SECRETARY, WERE YOU
3 INSTRUCTED TO CONTACT KEVIN SANDERS TO INFORM HIM THAT THE
4 BOARD WANTED TO SPEAK WITH HIM PRIOR TO THE FRANCHISE
5 MEETING?
6 A I DON'T RECALL THAT, BUT I WASN'T AT THIS
7 MEETING SO.
8 Q AGAIN, I KNOW YOU WEREN'T. THAT'S AFTER THIS
9 MEETING, WERE YOU EVER TOLD?
10 A I THINK THEY WERE GOING TO TALK TO KEVIN SANDERS
11 THE NEXT DAY. I WASN'T IN TOWN AT THAT POINT. SO.
12 Q DO YOU KNOW IF ANYBODY WHO MAY HAVE CONTACTED
13 KEVIN SANDERS WITH REGARDS TO INFORMING HIM THAT THEY
14 DESIRED TO HAVE A MEETING WITH HIM PRIOR TO THE FRANCHISE
15 MEETING?
16 A NO, I DO NOT RECALL.
17 Q DO YOU KNOW WHOSE RESPONSIBILITY THAT MIGHT HAVE
18 BEEN TO HAVE NOTICED KEVIN SANDERS?
19 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM.
20 THE WITNESS: AGAIN, I DON'T RECALL. IT
21 COULD HAVE BEEN MARY. IT COULD HAVE BEEN RICHARD,
22 SO --
23 BY MR. SANDERS:
24 Q AND AGAIN, THERE'S NO REFLECTION IN THESE
25 MINUTES WITH REGARDS TO REVIEW OF ANY OF THE E-MAILS THAT
91
1 YOU REVIEWED HERE TODAY, IS THERE?
2 A I DON'T SEE ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
3 MR. SANDERS: THAT WOULD BE 14.
4 (WHEREUPON, THE REFERRED-TO DOCUMENT WAS
5 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS EXHIBIT 14.)
6 BY MR. SANDERS:
7 Q LET ME SHOW YOU AGAIN OCTOBER 14 MISS FLORIDA
8 EXECUTIVE BOARD OF DIRECTOR'S MEETING, UNIVERSITY OF
9 CENTRAL FLORIDA, ORLANDO. I'LL ASK YOU IF YOU RECOGNIZE
10 THOSE?
11 A I BELIEVE I'VE SEEN THESE.
12 Q YOU WERE ABSENT AGAIN ON THAT PARTICULAR
13 MEETING?
14 A (RESPONDING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE).
15 Q YOU WERE A MEMBER OF THE EXECUTIVE BOARD.
16 ACCORDING TO THIS, YOU WERE LISTED AS A BOARD MEMBER
17 ABSENT?
18 A CORRECT.
19 Q DID YOU DISCUSS WITH ANY OF THE OTHER BOARD
20 MEMBERS, MARY SULLIVAN, RICHARD WALKER, ROB LOY OR KITTY
21 PATAPAL, WHY KEVIN SANDERS AND THE NORTH FLORIDA
22 SCHOLARSHIP ORGANIZATION WAS -- DID NOT HAVE THE MISS
23 JACKSONVILLE PAGEANT RENEWED WITH THEM?
24 A I DON'T RECALL ANY CONVERSATIONS AS SUCH.
25 Q DO YOU HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE AS TO WHY THE PAGEANT
92
1 WAS NOT RENEWED IN THE NORTH FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP
2 ORGANIZATION OR KEVIN SANDERS' NAME?
3 A I DIDN'T HAVE CONVERSATION WITH ANY OF THESE
4 PEOPLE. I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHY THEY VOTED THE WAY THEY
5 DID.
6 Q YOU DON'T HAVE ANY OPINION ONE WAY OR ANOTHER?
7 A OPINION ABOUT THE WAY THEY VOTED?
8 Q RIGHT.
9 A NOT REALLY, NO.
10 Q LET ME ASK YOU THIS: YOU REVIEWED NUMEROUS
11 E-MAILS THAT WERE EXCHANGED BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN MARY
12 SULLIVAN AND JENNIFER HERRINGTON AND MARY SULLIVAN AND
13 KEVIN SANDERS. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THOSE E-MAILS WOULD
14 HAVE BEEN OF SOME BENEFIT FOR THE GENERAL BOARD OR THE
15 EXECUTIVE BOARD TO REVIEW BEFORE MAKING ANY DECISION?
16 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
17 THE WITNESS: I DON'T THINK SO.
18 BY MR. SANDERS:
19 Q WHY IS THAT?
20 A I THINK THE OPINION OF WHAT HAD HAPPENED I THINK
21 WAS ALREADY THERE IN EVERYONE'S MIND.
22 Q I GUESS THAT'S WHAT I WAS HOPING TO FINALLY GET
23 TO. WHAT IS THE OPINION OF WHAT HAPPENED?
24 A IT'S ONLY MY OPINION.
25 Q OKAY. WELL, WHAT IS THAT?
93
1 A WELL, I THINK JUST THE WAY THAT IT KIND OF CAME
2 DOWN WITH THE WEB SITE, THE NOTICE THAT WAS PUT ON THE
3 JACKSONVILLE WEB SITE.
4 Q AND WHAT WAS WRONG WITH THE NOTICE ON THE
5 JACKSONVILLE WEB SITE?
6 A WELL, I JUST THINK THE WAY IT WAS HANDLED.
7 Q AGAIN, HOW WAS IT HANDLED IMPROPERLY?
8 A WELL, THE BOARD WAS NEVER NOTIFIED THAT THERE
9 WAS GOING TO BE A CHANGE IN THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTORS AND SO
10 FORTH.
11 Q ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT THE WEB SITE OR WHATEVER
12 WENT INTO THE DECISION MAKING FOR NOT AWARDING THE
13 FRANCHISE TO KEVIN SANDERS AND THE NORTH FLORIDA
14 SCHOLARSHIP ORGANIZATION?
15 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM.
16 THE WITNESS: I WASN'T THERE. I HAVE NO
17 IDEA WHAT THEIR DECISIONS OR WHAT THEY BASED THEIR
18 DECISIONS ON AND WHAT DISCUSSION THEY HAD.
19 BY MR. SANDERS:
20 Q WELL AGAIN, I'M NOT ASKING YOU TO TELL ME --
21 WHAT I OBVIOUSLY KNOW YOU COULD NOT KNOW SINCE YOU WEREN'T
22 THERE. BUT YOU SAID THAT THERE WAS A GENERAL OPINION?
23 A THAT GENERAL OPINION IS MINE.
24 Q THAT GENERAL --
25 A THAT WAS MINE.
94
1 Q YOU FORMULATED THAT JUST ON REVIEWING THE WEB
2 SITE?
3 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM.
4 THE WITNESS: PRETTY MUCH SO, YEAH.
5 BY MR. SANDERS:
6 Q OKAY. AND YOUR OPINION WOULD NOT HAVE CHANGED
7 AT ALL AFTER REVIEWING THE E-MAILS BETWEEN KEVIN SANDERS
8 AND MARY SULLIVAN WHERE IT WOULD SEEM THAT KEVIN SANDERS
9 WOULD BE CONTINUING TO BE THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR?
10 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM.
11 THE WITNESS: I DOUBT IT.
12 MR. SANDERS: THAT WOULD BE NUMBER 15.
13 (WHEREUPON, THE REFERRED-TO DOCUMENT WAS
14 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS EXHIBIT 15.)
15 BY MR. SANDERS:
16 Q DO YOU KNOW OF ANY DIRECTORS THAT HAVE BEEN
17 DIRECTORS OF THE MISS FLORIDA PAGEANT FOR MORE THAN FIVE
18 YEARS?
19 A I KNOW A COUPLE, YES.
20 Q ANYONE OFF THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD?
21 A BOB CLARK.
22 Q WHO ELSE?
23 A BARBARA GIERS BROOK, RUTH SIDBURY.
24 Q ANYONE ELSE?
25 A YOU SAID OVER FIVE YEARS?
95
1 Q WELL, IN FACT BOB CLARK, BARBARA AND RUTH, THEY
2 PROBABLY ALL HAD PAGEANTS OVER 20 YEARS?
3 A EXACTLY.
4 Q OKAY. EXPLAIN TO ME IN YOUR OWN WORDS SINCE
5 THERE'S NOTHING IN WRITING AND YOU'VE ALREADY TESTIFIED TO
6 THAT, WHAT YOU PERCEIVE THE PROCEED THE PROCEDURE IS ON
7 RENEWING FRANCHISES. ESPECIALLY LONGSTANDING FRANCHISES?
8 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
9 THE WITNESS: WELL, A FRANCHISE, IT EXPIRES
10 ON THE EXPIRATION DATE. I BELIEVE IT'S THE DATE
11 OF THE STATE PAGEANT. AND THEN EVERYBODY PRESENTS
12 A FRANCHISE AGREEMENT AND WE GO THROUGH AND MAKE
13 SURE THAT EVERYBODY MEETS THE SAME CRITERION ARE
14 THEY INCORPORATED AND SO FORTH.
15 BY MR. SANDERS:
16 Q AND I GUESS THAT'S WHAT -- WHAT'S THE CRITERION?
17 A RIGHT OFF, I DON'T HAVE A FRANCHISE AGREEMENT IN
18 FRONT OF ME SO, BUT IF THEY ARE NON-PROFIT AND WHOSE GOING
19 TO SERVE AS THEIR EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR. THEN, OF COURSE,
20 THAT THEY AGREE TO EVERYTHING ON THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENT.
21 THAT THEY'RE GOING TO SEND A YOUNG LADY TO MISS FLORIDA.
22 SO.
23 Q SO ARE THERE ANY OTHER CRITERION OTHER THAN WHAT
24 IS CONTAINED IN THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENT?
25 A I GUESS THERE COULD BE CRITERION OF THE
96
1 REPUTATION OF A PAGEANT.
2 Q WHEN YOU SAY THERE COULD BE, IS THERE ANYTHING
3 IN WRITING STATING THAT IS A CRITERION?
4 A NO.
5 Q NOW, LET'S TALK ABOUT REPUTATIONS. PATTY ADEVE
6 IS A MEMBER OF I GUESS WHAT IS CONSIDERED THE BOARD. IS
7 THAT CORRECT?
8 A I BELIEVE ACCORDING TO THAT PROGRAM BOOK SHE IS.
9 Q AND I THINK EARLIER YOU HAD TESTIFIED THAT
10 YOU'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS PAGEANT FOR I THINK YOU SAID
11 29 YEARS?
12 A YES.
13 Q WERE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE TIME THAT PATTY ADEVE
14 ACCUSED RUTH SIDBURY OF USING THE N WORD TO DESCRIBE BLACK
15 CONTEST TENTS AND OTHER PAGEANTS?
16 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
17 THE WITNESS: I DON'T RECALL THAT, NO.
18 BY MR. SANDERS:
19 Q WAS THAT EVER BROUGHT UP AT ANY OF THE
20 DISCUSSIONS TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF WHO SHOULD BE AWARDED THE
21 MISS JACKSONVILLE FRANCHISE?
22 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM.
23 THE WITNESS: NO.
24 BY MR. SANDERS:
25 Q OKAY. YOU ARE AWARE THAT PATTY ADEVE HAD
97
1 BROUGHT FORMAL CHARGES AGAINST RUTH WITH REGARDS TO THAT
2 AT ONE POINT, WERE YOU NOT?
3 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM.
4 THE WITNESS: NO, I'M NOT AWARE OF THAT.
5 BY MR. SANDERS:
6 Q NOBODY -- MARY SULLIVAN OR ANYBODY NEVER
7 MENTIONED ANY OF THAT?
8 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM.
9 THE WITNESS: NOT TO ME.
10 BY MR. SANDERS:
11 Q YOU DO KNOW AT ONE POINT IN TIME, KEVIN AND CAMY
12 SANDERS TOOK OVER THE JACKSONVILLE PAGEANT FROM RUTH
13 SIDBURY?
14 A CORRECT.
15 Q OKAY. WERE YOU EVER INFORMED THAT THE REASONING
16 THAT TOOK PLACE WAS THAT RUTH SIDBURY NEVER GAVE A
17 FINANCIAL ACCOUNTING OF WHAT MONIES CAME IN TO THE
18 ORGANIZATION AND WHAT MONIES CAME OUT?
19 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM,
20 FOUNDATION.
21 THE WITNESS: I DON'T RECALL THAT.
22 BY MR. SANDERS:
23 Q NO ONE EVERY MENTIONED THAT?
24 A NOT TO MY -- NOT TO MY RECOLLECTION, NO.
25 Q OKAY. MARY SULLIVAN NEVER MENTIONED THAT?
98
1 A NOT TO MY RECOLLECTION, NO.
2 Q OKAY. NOW RUTH SIDBURY'S DEPOSITION HAS BEEN
3 TAKEN IN THIS CASE AND SHE HAS ACKNOWLEDGED UNDER OATH ON
4 THE RECORD THAT SHE'S NEVER PROVIDED AN ACCOUNTING TO ANY
5 OF HER BOARDS WITH REGARDS TO THE FINANCES OF HER
6 JACKSONVILLE SCHOLARSHIP FOUNDATION.
7 MS. KENNEDY: IS THAT A QUESTION OR ARE YOU
8 TESTIFYING.
9 THE WITNESS: THAT SOUNDS LIKE A STATEMENT.
10 MR. SANDERS: I WAS GOING TO GET TO IT.
11 DOES THAT CAUSE YOU ANY CONCERN --
12 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM.
13 Q -- AS A BOARD MEMBER OF THE MISS FLORIDA
14 SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, INC.?
15 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM.
16 THE WITNESS: NO.
17 BY MR. SANDERS:
18 Q WHY NOT?
19 A WHY? AS LONG AS SHE CAN PAY HER SCHOLARSHIPS
20 AND SHE HAS ANY PAGEANT, WE DON'T ASK FOR -- THEY HAVE TO
21 SUBMIT A SCHOLARSHIP REPORT, SO ONCE THEY DO THAT THEN WE
22 DON'T ASK TO SEE ANYBODY'S FINANCES.
23 Q SO IT DOESN'T CONCERN YOU THAT SHE COULD BE
24 POTENTIALLY DIVERTING SCHOLARSHIP FUNDS TO PERSONAL USE?
25 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM. OBJECT TO
99
1 THE MISCHARACTERIZATION AND OPINIONS OF COUNSEL.
2 THE WITNESS: REPEAT YOUR QUESTION.
3 BY MR. SANDERS:
4 Q I SAID, IT DOESN'T CONCERN YOU THAT WITHOUT AN
5 ANNUAL ACCOUNTING SHE COULD BE MISDIRECTING FUNDS TO HER
6 OWN PERSONAL USE?
7 MS. KENNEDY: THE SAME OBJECTION.
8 THE WITNESS: THAT COULD CONCERN ME. YEAH,
9 IT COULD.
10 BY MR. SANDERS:
11 Q HAD YOU KNOWN THOSE TWO PIECES OF INFORMATION
12 PRIOR TO THE AWARDING OF THE PAGEANT TO RUTH SIDBURY,
13 WOULD THAT HAVE EFFECTING YOUR THINKING IN ANY WAY ABOUT
14 AWARDING HER THE MISS JACKSONVILLE FRANCHISE?
15 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
16 THE WITNESS: NO, IT WOULD NOT HAVE.
17 BY MR. SANDERS:
18 Q YOU WOULD STILL HAVE GIVEN THE FRANCHISE TO A
19 WOMAN WHO DOESN'T ACCOUNT FOR FUNDS AND THAT USES THE N
20 WORD TO DESCRIBE WOMEN OF COLOR IN HER PAGEANTS?
21 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
22 THE WITNESS: RESTATE THAT AGAIN.
23 MR. SANDERS: I'LL JUST HAVE HER REPEAT IT.
24 (WHEREUPON, THE LAST QUESTION WAS READ BY THE
25 REPORTER.).
100
1 THE WITNESS: I GUESS THAT COULD BE A
2 POSSIBILITY.
3 MS. KENNEDY: YOU'VE GOT MY OBJECTION ON
4 THERE RIGHT?
5 THE REPORTER: YES.
6 MS. KENNEDY: GOOD.
7 BY MR. SANDERS:
8 Q WHEN YOU SAY THAT'S A POSSIBILITY, THAT'S A
9 POSSIBILITY YOU WOULD STILL AWARDED TO HER UNDER THOSE
10 CIRCUMSTANCES?
11 A THERE'S A POSSIBILITY. I'M NOT SAYING THAT I
12 WOULD AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT I WOULDN'T.
13 Q IS THERE ANYTHING FROM ANY PERSON, BOARD MEMBER,
14 MISS FLORIDA OR ANYONE THAT YOU HAVE DISCUSSED WITH OR
15 THEY HAVE DISCUSSED WITH YOU THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE
16 NORTH FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP ORGANIZATION NOT BEING AWARDED
17 THE MISS JACKSONVILLE FRANCHISE IN 2006?
18 MS. KENNEDY: EXCEPT ANYTHING YOU MIGHT HAVE
19 DISCUSSED WITH YOUR COUNSEL.
20 MR. SANDERS: WHICH WE PREFACED AT THE
21 BEGINNING.
22 THE WITNESS: NOT THAT I RECALL.
23 BY MR. SANDERS:
24 Q NOW, THE NORTH FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP ORGANIZATION
25 HAS FILED FOR THE MISS JACKSONVILLE PAGEANT AGAIN THE YEAR
101
1 AFTER, DID IT NOT?
2 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM.
3 THE WITNESS: I BELIEVE SO.
4 BY MR. SANDERS:
5 Q OKAY. WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT APPLICATION?
6 A I BELIEVE IT WAS RETURNED TO KEVIN SANDERS
7 BECAUSE OF A PENDING LAWSUIT.
8 Q SO THE REASON WHY IT WAS NOT AWARDED WAS BECAUSE
9 OF THE LAWSUIT?
10 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
11 THE WITNESS: I BELIEVE SO.
12 BY MR. SANDERS:
13 Q WAS THAT WHAT WAS DISCUSSED AT THE MINUTES?
14 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM.
15 THE WITNESS: I WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK TO
16 LOOK AT THE MINUTES. I DON'T RECALL THE EXACT
17 CONVERSATION.
18 BY MR. SANDERS:
19 Q SO THAT WOULD BE IN THE MINUTES?
20 A I DON'T RECALL. I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS AN
21 ACTUAL SUBJECT OF THE -- I THINK WE TOOK THAT DIRECTION
22 FROM AN ATTORNEY.
23 MS. KENNEDY: WELL, THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS
24 THAT AS MUCH AS KEVIN WARNED IN ADVANCE, IF
25 THERE'S ANYTHING THAT YOU KNOW OF, IF YOU KNOW,
102
1 THAT WAS PURSUANT TO A COMMUNICATION WITH YOUR
2 ATTORNEY, I INSTRUCT YOU NOT TO ANSWER. IF YOU
3 KNOW. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WERE
4 SAYING.
5 THE WITNESS: I DIDN'T HAVE ANY
6 CONVERSATION. YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE I'VE EVER
7 TALKED TO.
8 BY MR. SANDERS:
9 Q AND THEN THE NORTH FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP
10 ORGANIZATION WITH KEVIN SANDERS AS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
11 APPLIED AGAIN FOR THE CURRENT PAGEANT SEASON. IS THAT
12 CORRECT?
13 A I BELIEVE SO.
14 Q OKAY. AND WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT APPLICATION?
15 A I BELIEVE IT WAS RETURNED.
16 Q AND DO YOU KNOW WHY THAT ONE WAS RETURNED?
17 A I BELIEVE FOR THE SAME REASON.
18 Q AND THAT WAS JUST BECAUSE OF THE PENDING
19 LITIGATION?
20 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM.
21 THE WITNESS: RIGHT.
22 BY MR. SANDERS:
23 Q I'M SORRY YOUR ANSWER WAS?
24 A I BELIEVE SO.
25 Q AND AGAIN, THAT WOULD BE REFLECTED IN MINUTES?
103
1 A I WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK. I CAN'T
2 GUARANTEE IT.
3 Q DO YOU KNOW IF IT WAS EVEN CONSIDERED AT ALL OR
4 WAS IT JUST SUMMARILY --
5 A IT MAY HAVE BEEN A PHONE CALL, CONSIDERATION TO
6 THE BOARD, THE EXECUTIVE BOARD.
7 Q SO THERE MIGHT NOT BE ANY FORMAL MINUTES OF
8 THAT?
9 A I HAVE TO DOUBLE CHECK THAT. I DON'T RECALL.
10 Q YOU WERE GIVEN A NOTICE OF TAKING DEPOSITION
11 TODAY, WERE YOU NOT?
12 A YES.
13 Q DO YOU HAVE THAT WITH YOU OR?
14 A NO, I DO NOT.
15 Q IT WAS A NOTICE OF TAKING DEPOSITION DUCES TECUM
16 REQUESTING DOCUMENTS, RECORDS, MATTERS THAT MAY BE IN YOUR
17 POSSESSION. DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING WITH YOU TODAY?
18 A NO, I DON'T. ANYTHING --
19 MS. KENNEDY: I WANT TO STATE OUR OBJECTION
20 AGAIN FOR THE RECORD.
21 THE WITNESS: ANYTHING THAT'S BEEN TURNED
22 OVER --
23 MS. KENNEDY: NOT BEING PROPERLY NOTICED. I
24 WANT TO GET THAT DOWN ON THE RECORD. YOU CAN GO
25 AHEAD TESTIFY AS TO WHAT --
104
1 THE WITNESS: ANYTHING THAT I HAD IN MY
2 POSSESSION WAS FORWARDED TO MARY SULLIVAN.
3 BY MR. SANDERS:
4 Q OKAY. I COULD -- WELL, LET'S JUST DO IT TO MAKE
5 SURE THE RECORD IS CLEAR.
6 MS. KENNEDY: ARE YOU GOING TO GO THROUGH
7 THAT LINE-BY-LINE?
8 MR. SANDERS: YES. I DID THE SAME THING
9 WITH ROB.
10 MS. KENNEDY: I KNOW. IT TOOK QUITE A
11 WHILE. I CAN TELL YOU MAYBE YOU COULD ASK HIM IF
12 HE HAS RECENTLY LOOKED AT IT AND GONE THROUGH IT
13 HIMSELF.
14 MR. SANDERS: WHY DON'T WE JUST DO THIS, NOT
15 THAT WE TAKE A BREAK, BUT MR. WILLIAMS, I'M GOING
16 TO HAND YOU MY COPY OF YOUR NOTICE OF DEPOSITION
17 WITH THE ATTACHED EXHIBIT A TO IT. WHAT I'M GOING
18 TO DO IS ASK YOU TO READ IT. AND MAKE MENTAL
19 NOTES BECAUSE THIS IS MY COPY. I DON'T WANT YOU
20 TO WRITE ON IT, BUT MAKE MENTAL NOTES AS TO
21 WHETHER OR NOT YOU HAD ANY OF THE DOCUMENTS
22 LISTED -- REQUESTED ONE THROUGH 24 IN YOUR
23 POSSESSION.
24 AND IF YOU DID, WHERE THOSE ARE AT NOW.
25 THEN, OF COURSE, IF YOU DIDN'T THEN I WON'T WORRY
105
1 ABOUT THOSE. I'LL ONLY WORRY ABOUT THE PARAGRAPHS
2 THAT YOU ACTUALLY INDICATE YOU HAD DOCUMENTS IN
3 YOUR POSSESSION AND WE'LL GO FROM THERE.
4 MS. KENNEDY: I'LL PUT ANOTHER OBJECTION ON
5 THE RECORD IN ADDITION TO THE OTHER OBJECTION THAT
6 I'VE MADE WITH REGARD TO ANY OF THESE REQUESTS TO
7 THE EXTENT THEY'RE SEEKING THE SAME PLAINTIFF'S
8 REQUEST TO PRODUCE. WE RESTATE THOSE OBJECTIONS.
9 THE WITNESS: OKAY.
10 BY MR. SANDERS:
11 Q AGAIN, WE'LL GO BACK ON THE RECORD. MR. WALKER,
12 YOU'VE REVIEWED EXHIBIT A TO YOUR NOTICE OF DEPOSITION.
13 OUT OF I BELIEVE IT'S ONE THROUGH 24, DID YOU AT ANY POINT
14 IN TIME HAVE ANY OF THOSE REQUESTED DOCUMENTS IN YOUR
15 POSSESSION?
16 A IT'S MR. WILLIAMS.
17 Q I'M SORRY, WHAT DID I SAY?
18 A WALKER.
19 Q I'M SORRY.
20 A THAT'S ALL RIGHT. ANYTHING THAT I DID HAVE I
21 WOULD HAVE FORWARDED TO MARY, BUT I NO LONGER HAVE THEM IN
22 MY POSSESSION.
23 Q DO YOU KNOW SPECIFICALLY --
24 A THERE MAY HAVE JUST BEEN A COUPLE E-MAILS.
25 Q COUPLE E-MAILS, THAT'S IT?
106
1 A YEAH, YEAH. I DON'T -- WE DON'T -- THE REST,
2 THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENT, WE DON'T -- WE DON'T HOLD ON TO
3 ANY OF THAT. MARY HAS GOT ALL OF THAT.
4 MR. SANDERS: NO FURTHER QUESTIONS AT THIS
5 TIME.
6 MS. KENNEDY: CAN I ASK A COUPLE FOLLOW-UPS.
7 CROSS-EXAMINATION
8 BY MS. KENNEDY:
9 Q A FEW TIMES TODAY I THINK YOU MENTIONED WHAT
10 HAPPENED WITH THE WEB SITE. AND I DON'T THINK WE REALLY
11 HAVE GONE INTO THAT. I WANT TO LET YOU EXPLAIN WHAT
12 YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WHEN YOU SAY WHAT WAS GOING ON WITH
13 THE WEB SITE ANNOUNCING THE --
14 A THE CANCELLATION OF THE PAGEANT? YEAH, IT WAS A
15 WEB SITE FROM THE MISS JACKSONVILLE ORGANIZATION.
16 MS. KENNEDY: IF I COULD LOOK AT THE
17 EXHIBITS, WERE THERE ANY IN THERE THAT HAD --
18 MR. SANDERS: NOT IN THIS ONE.
19 MS. KENNEDY: I ACTUALLY MIGHT HAVE TO SHOW
20 THEM MINE THEN DEFENDANTS ONE.
21 BY MS. KENNEDY:
22 Q IT'S BATES 1OO68. IF YOU WILL TAKE A LOOK AT
23 THAT PARAGRAPH THERE AT THE BOTTOM. LET ME KNOW IF THAT'S
24 WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT?
25 A YES.
107
1 Q WHEN YOU SAID THE WEB SITE?
2 A (RESPONDING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE).
3 Q AND CAN YOU POINT OUT IN THAT PARAGRAPH -- WELL,
4 JUST TELL ME. IT SAYS HERE THIS IS COPIED FROM THE
5 JACKSONVILLE FIRST COAST WEB SITE.
6 A CORRECT.
7 Q YOU'RE SAYING THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO
8 THAT YOU SAW ON THE MISS JACKSONVILLE WEB SITE?
9 A I DIDN'T PERSONALLY SEE THIS UNTIL LATER. I
10 MEAN, I NEVER SAW IT ON THE WEB SITE, BUT I DID SEE AN
11 E-MAIL WITH THAT.
12 Q OKAY. SO WHEN YOU WERE REFERRING TO THAT
13 EARLIER, WHAT PROBLEMS DID YOU HAVE WITH THE LANGUAGE
14 THAT'S IN THAT PARAGRAPH?
15 A I THINK THE ORGANIZATION HAVING CANCELED. I
16 THINK THAT WOULD ALARM A WILL IT OF YOUNG LADIES IF THEY
17 WERE PLANNING TO ENTER A PAGEANT.
18 Q OKAY. AND DID YOU HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE THAT HAD
19 BEEN CANCELED PRIOR TO HEARING ABOUT THIS ON THE WEB SITE?
20 MR. SANDERS: I GOING TO OBJECT BECAUSE HE'S
21 ALREADY TESTIFIED HE DID NOT SEE IT ON THE WEB
22 SITE.
23 MS. KENNEDY: I DIDN'T SAY HE SAW IT. I
24 SAID PRIOR TO HEARING ABOUT THIS ON THE WEB SITE,
25 DID YOU HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE THAT IT HAD BEEN
108
1 CANCELED?
2 THE WITNESS: NO. WHEN THIS CAME OUT THEN I
3 WAS INFORMED OF IT LATER.
4 BY MS. KENNEDY:
5 Q DO YOU KNOW IF ANYBODY ON THE BOARD HAD ANY
6 KNOWLEDGE OF THE WEB SITE BEING CANCELED?
7 A NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF I MEAN.
8 Q YOU'RE TALKING OVER ME.
9 A I'M SORRY.
10 Q WITH WAS YOUR ANSWER.
11 A NOT THAT I RECALL.
12 Q I THINK YOU ALSO REFERENCED THIS A COUPLE OF
13 TIMES WHEN MR. SANDERS WAS ASKING YOU ABOUT JENNIFER AND
14 HER INVOLVEMENT IN TAKING OVER. IS THAT WHAT YOU WERE
15 REFERRING TO?
16 A RIGHT. EXACTLY.
17 Q YOU SAID -- LET ME FINISH. IS THAT WHAT YOU
18 WERE REFERRING TO WHEN YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE WEB SITE
19 AND JENNIFER TAKING OVER?
20 A YES, MA'AM.
21 Q OKAY. AND CAN YOU POINT TO THE LANGUAGE IN THIS
22 THAT WOULD MAKE YOU TESTIFY TO THAT?
23 A THE SENTENCE HERE.
24 Q WELL, COULD YOU READ IT?
25 A OH WANT ME TO READ IT. JENNIFER AND JEFF
109
1 HERRINGTON HAD EXPRESSED AN INTEREST IN TAKING IT OVER,
2 THE PAGEANT, AND CAN BE CONTACTED AT, THEN E-MAIL ADDRESS
3 JPH ANGEL AT AOL DOT COM OR AT 945,899,758.
4 Q OKAY. THIS SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN SIGNED --
5 A RIGHT, EXACTLY.
6 Q -- KEVIN SANDERS AT THE END IS THAT WHAT YOU
7 RECALL HEARING ABOUT THAT WAS ON THE WEB SITE?
8 A YES, MA'AM.
9 Q OKAY.
10 MR. SANDERS: KEEP THAT OUT FOR A MINUTE.
11 MS. KENNEDY: WE SHOULD GO AHEAD AND MARK
12 THAT AS DEFENDANT'S ONE.
13 (WHEREUPON, THE REFERRED-TO DOCUMENT WAS
14 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS EXHIBIT 16.)
15 Q AND ALSO A COUPLE OF TIMES TALKED ABOUT -- JUST
16 A QUICK QUESTION ON EXHIBIT NUMBER 11 BECAUSE THIS IS THE
17 SEPTEMBER 19, '06 E-MAIL FROM JENNIFER TO MARY AND
18 MR. SANDERS CHARACTERIZED IT AS BEING COPIED TO YOU. AND
19 JUST TO CLARIFY, IS THAT COPY TO ANYBODY ELSE OTHER THAN
20 YOU?
21 A IT IS COPIED TO ROB LOY, KITTY PATAPAL, RICHARD
22 WALKER AND RAY MCLEOD.
23 Q AND THAT'S THE EXECUTIVE BOARD?
24 A WITH THE EXCEPTION OF RAY MCLEOD, HE'S THE LEGAL
25 COUNSEL.
110
1 Q OKAY. SO WHEN MR. SANDERS ASKED YOU IF THIS
2 E-MAIL WAS EVER BROUGHT BEFORE THE BOARD, WOULD YOU
3 CONSIDER IT BEING COPIED -- BEING BROUGHT BEFORE THE
4 EXECUTIVE BOARD?
5 A I GUESS IT COULD BE.
6 Q OKAY.
7 A YEAH, I WAS THINKING --
8 Q AND I THINK THAT'S ALL I NEED TO ASK.
9 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
10 BY MR. SANDERS:
11 Q IF I COULD JUST GET 16 BACK FROM YOU.
12 I DON'T THINK I NEED TO SHOW YOU 11. ELEVEN WAS
13 THE FIRST THING THAT -- THE LAST THING THAT YOU WERE JUST
14 SHOWN BY YOUR ATTORNEY, MS. KENNEDY. AND I'LL JUST
15 CLARIFY FOR THE RECORD, I BELIEVE YOU SAID IT WHEN I ASKED
16 YOU THAT QUESTION, I WAS ASKING WHETHER OR NOT THAT HAD
17 BEEN BROUGHT IN FRONT OF A BOARD IN A FORMAL SETTING SUCH
18 AS A MEETING OR A NOTICED MEETING OR A PROPER GATHERING OF
19 THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS.
20 AND I THOUGHT THAT'S YOUR ANSWER WAS NO, BUT
21 I'LL ASK YOU AGAIN. WAS THAT E-MAIL EVER BROUGHT UP IN A
22 FORMAL SETTING BEFORE THE EXECUTIVE BOARD OR THE REGULAR
23 BOARD OR ANY OTHER BODY OF THE MISS FLORIDA ORGANIZATION
24 AT A REGULAR MEETING?
25 A I DON'T BELIEVE SO.
111
1 Q OKAY. NOW, I BELIEVE YOU TESTIFIED WITH REGARDS
2 TO NUMBER 16, THAT YOU HAD NEVER SEEN THE ACTUAL POSTING
3 ON THE MISS JACKSONVILLE WEB SITE. IS THAT CORRECT?
4 A YES, SIR.
5 Q WAS IT MARY SULLIVAN WHO PROVIDED WITH YOU THE
6 COPY OF THAT YOU THEN RECALLED LOOKING AT?
7 A I BELIEVE THAT'S WHO SENT THAT OUT.
8 Q OKAY. AND DO YOU KNOW WHERE SHE GOT IT FROM?
9 A NO, SIR, I DON'T.
10 Q SO YOU DON'T KNOW WHO SHE GOT IT FROM. YOU
11 WOULDN'T EVEN KNOW IF THIS WAS A TRUE AND ACCURATE
12 RECITATION OF WHAT WAS ON THE WEB SITE, WOULD YOU THEN?
13 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM. ARE YOU
14 REFERRING TO THE E-MAIL OR --
15 BY MR. SANDERS:
16 Q I'M REFERRING TO THE ALLEGED POSING IT SAYS
17 COPIED FROM THE MISS JACKSONVILLE FIRST COAST WEB SITE.
18 YOU HAVE NO PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE THAT THAT'S A
19 TRUE AND ACCURATE STATEMENT OF WHAT WAS ON THERE?
20 A CORRECT.
21 Q OKAY. DID YOU EVER RAISE THAT QUESTION TO
22 ANYBODY?
23 A NO, I DIDN'T.
24 Q OKAY.
25 MR. SANDERS: DO YOU HAVE ANY FURTHER CROSS
112
1 OR ANYTHING.
2 WHAT I'M GOING TO DO AT THIS POINT IN TIME,
3 MR. WILLIAMS IS I'M GOING TO SUSPEND YOUR
4 DEPOSITION. THE REASON I'M GOING TO SUSPEND YOUR
5 DEPOSITION IS BECAUSE I'M STILL TAKING THE
6 DEPOSITION OF OTHER BOARD MEMBERS.
7 I WANT TO LEAVE THE DOOR OPEN IF SOMEBODY
8 SAYS OH YEAH, KEITH WILLIAMS WAS IN CHARGE OF
9 THAT, AND THAT'S IN CONSISTENT WITH WHAT YOU'VE
10 TESTIFIED TODAY. I WANT TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY
11 TO QUESTION YOU FURTHER ON WHAT OTHER PEOPLE WILL
12 TESTIFY TO.
13 IF NO ONE SAYS ANYTHING INCONSISTENT OR JUST
14 FOR ANY REASON I DECIDE THAT THERE'S NO REASON TO
15 FOLLOW-UP WITH A FOLLOW-UP DEPOSITION, YOUR
16 DEPOSITION WILL LIKELY BE TRANSCRIBED AND YOU HAVE
17 AN OPPORTUNITY TO EITHER READ OR WAIVE THAT
18 TRANSCRIPTION. I'LL ASSUME MS. KENNEDY PROBABLY
19 HAS SOME ADVICE TO YOU ON THAT.
20 MS. KENNEDY: HE'S GOING TO READ. I'M GOING
21 TO OBJECT TO SUSPENDING THE DEPOSITION BECAUSE I
22 DON'T THINK THAT'S A LEGITIMATE BASIS FOR
23 SUSPENDING. IT HAS BEEN STATED AND YOU HAVE HAD
24 PLENTY OF TIME TODAY TO GO THROUGH THE
25 INFORMATION.
113
1 MR. SANDERS: AGAIN, FOR THE RECORD, IT'S
2 HARD FOR ME TO ANTICIPATE THE ANSWERS OF
3 MR. WALKER AND MISS PATTY ADEVE AND MISS JENNIFER
4 HERRINGTON WITH REGARDS TO WHAT THEY PLAN ON
5 SAYING IN REFERENCE TO YOU MR. WILLIAMS. SO
6 THAT'S WHY I'M JUST SUSPENDING IT AT THIS TIME.
7 MS. KENNEDY: I'M JUST OBJECTING AT THIS
8 TIME. I THINK WE'RE DONE.
9 THE REPORTER: WOULD YOU LIKE TO HOLD NOW?
10 MR. SANDERS: CALL ME WITH AN ESTIMATE. WE
11 WILL CALL YOU.
12 (WHEREUPON THE PROCEEDINGS WERE CONCLUDED AT
13 1:20 P.M.)
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114
1 CERTIFICATE OF OATH
2 STATE OF FLORIDA)
3 COUNTY OF ORANGE)
4 I, THE UNDERSIGNED AUTHORITY, CERTIFY THAT
5 KEITH WLLIAMS, PERSONALLY APPEARED BEFORE ME AND
6 WAS DULY SWORN.
7 WITNESS MY HAND AND OFFICIAL SEAL THIS 30TH
8 DAY OF MARCH, 2009.
9 I, SANDRA A. MOSER, REGISTERED PROFESSIONAL
10 REPORTER, CERTIFY THAT I WAS AUTHORIZED TO AND DID
11 STENOGRAPHICALLY REPORT THE FOREGOING PROCEEDINGS
12 AND THAT THE TRANSCRIPT IS A TRUE RECORD.
13 I FURTHER CERTIFY THAT I AM NOT A RELATIVE,
14 EMPLOYEE, ATTORNEY OR COUNSEL OF ANY OF THE
15 PARTIES, NOR AM I FINANCIALLY INTERESTED IN THE
16 ACTION.
17 DATED THIS 30TH DAY OF MARCH, 2009.
18
19
20
______________________________
21 SANDRA A. MOSER, RPR,FPR
NOTARY PUBLIC - STATE OF FLORIDA
22 MY COMMISSION NO. DD0525811
MY COMMISSION EXPIRES: 5/6/10
23
24
25
115
1 SUBSCRIPTION OF DEPONENT
2 STATE OF FLORIDA
3 COUNTY OF ORANGE
4 I, KEITH WILLIAMS, DO HEREBY CERTIFY, HAVING
5 READ THE FOREGOING DEPOSITION, THAT SAID
6 TRANSCRIPT IS A TRUE AND ACCURATE RECORDING OF THE
7 PROCEEDINGS HAD AT THE TIME AND PLACE DESIGNATED,
8 INCLUDING CORRECTIONS NOTED ON THE ERRATA SHEET,
9 IF ANY.
10
11 ____________________________
KEITH WILLIAMS
12 DATE:
13 SWORN TO AND SUBSCRIBED BEFORE ME THIS ___ DAY
14 OF_______, 2009.
15 ____________________________
NOTARY PUBLIC
16 MY COMMISSION EXPIRES:
17
18 ERRATA SHEET
19 I, KEITH WILLIAMS, WISH TO MAKE THE FOLLOWING
20 CORRECTIONS:
21 PAGE LINE CORRECTION
22
23
24
25
116
1 REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
1188 FOX FORREST CIRCLE
2 APOPKA, FLORIDA 32712
3 407-884-4662
4
5 MARCH 30, 2009
6
7 KRISTYNE E. KENNEDY, ESQUIRE
JACKSON LEWIS
8 390 NORTH ORANGE AVENUE
SUITE 1285
9 ORLANDO, FLORIDA 32801
10 RE: NORTH FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP V. MISS FLORIDA
SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, INC., ET AL.
11 CASE NO.: 16-2007-CA-00575-MA
DEPOSITION OF KEITH WILLIAMS
12
DEAR MS. KENNEDY:
13
THE DEPOSITION OF KEITH WILLIAMS TAKEN IN THE
14 ABOVE-REFERENCED MATTER IS READY FOR READING AND SIGNING.
15 PLEASE HAVE THE DEPONENT CONTACT ME SO THAT HE
CAN SCHEDULE A TIME TO READ THE TRANSCRIPT AND SIGN THE
16 ERRATA SHEET. UPON COMPLETION OF SAME, I WILL FORWARD.
THE SIGNATURE PAGE TO MR. SANDERS, WHO IS IN POSSESSION.
17 OF THE ORIGINAL TRANSCRIPT.
18 IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE DON'T.
HESITATE TO CALL.
19
SINCERELY,
20
21
22 SANDRA A. MOSER, RPR, FPR
23
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