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1
1
2 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE FOURTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT,
3 IN AND FOR DUVAL COUNTY, FLORIDA
4
CASE NO.: 16-2007-CA-00575-MA
5
6 NORTH FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP
ORGANIZATION, INC., A FLORIDA
7 NOT-FOR-PROFIT CORPORATION,
8 PLAINTIFF,
VS.
9
MISS FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, INC.,
10 A FLORIDA CROPORATION D/B/A THE MISS
FLORIDA PAGEANT; JENNIFER HERRINGTON;
11 JACKSONVILLE SCHOLARSHIP FOUNDATION,
INC., A FLORIDA NOT-FOR-PROFIT
12 CORPORATION; VOYAGER INFO-SYSTEMS,
A CALIFORNIA BUSINESS D/B/A VOYFORUMS.COM;
13 AND GLOBAL GUEST, D/B/A AMAZINGFORUM.COM,
A FOREIGN BUSINESS,
14
DEFENDANTS.
15 ______________________________________/
16 DEPOSITION OF RAYMOND MCLEOD
17 DATE: FEBRUARY 19, 2009
TIME: 2:10 P.M.
18 LOCATION: MCLEOD LAW FIRM
48 EAST MAIN STREET
19 APOPKA, FLORIDA 32703
20 REPORTER: SANDRA A. DAWKINS, RPR, FPR
NOTARY PUBLIC
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2 A P P E A R A N C E S
3 KEVIN S. SANDERS, ESQUIRE
4 817 WILLOW BRANCH AVENUE
5 JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA 32205
6 ATTORNEYS FOR PLAINTIFF
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8 KRISTYNE E. KENNEDY, ESQUIRE
9 JACKSON LEWIS
10 390 NORTH ORANGE AVENUE
11 SUITE 1285
12 ORLANDO, FLORIDA 32801
13 ATTORNEY FOR DEFENDANT
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1 I N D E X
2 TESTIMONY OF RAY MCLEOD
3 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. SANDERS 4
4 CERTIFICATE OF OATH 46
5 SUBSCRIPTION OF DEPONENT 47
6 ERRATA SHEET 47
7 LETTER TO ATTORNEY 48
8
9 E X H I B I T S
10 1 -- 9-18-06 3:34 P.M. E-MAIL 24
11 2 --E-MAIL 24
12 3 -- E-MAIL 24
13 4 --E-MAIL 29
14 5 --E-MAIL 32
15 6 --2006 FLORIDA PAGEANT PROGRAM BOOK 41
16 7 --2006 MISS FLORIDA PAGEANT PAGEANT BOOK 43
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 RAYMOND MCLEOD,
3 HAVING BEEN DULY SWORN, WAS EXAMINED AND TESTIFIED AS
4 FOLLOWS:
5 DIRECT EXAMINATION
6 BY MR. SANDERS:
7 Q MR. MCLEOD, KEVIN SANDERS, I REPRESENT THE
8 PLAINTIFF IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE. AS I KNOW YOUR AN
9 ATTORNEY, YOU HAVE BEEN AT LEAST INVOLVED IN MANY
10 DEPOSITIONS.
11 HAVE YOU EVER HAD YOUR DEPOSITION TAKEN BEFORE?
12 A I HAVE.
13 Q OKAY.
14 A NOT AS A PARTY, BUT AS A WITNESS IN CERTAIN
15 ATTORNEY'S FEES ISSUES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
16 Q AND AGAIN, I THINK YOU KNOW THE ROUTINE. BUT
17 I'LL JUST STATE IT FOR THE RECORD. THIS IS A DISCOVERY
18 ELEMENT THAT'S ALLOWED BY THE RULES OF PROCEDURE. IT'S
19 GOING TO BE A FRIENDLY DISCUSSION BACK AND FORTH,
20 QUESTION, ANSWER.
21 IF AT SOME POINT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M
22 ASKING OR NEED CLARIFICATION, LET ME KNOW AND I'LL DO MY
23 BEST TO CLARIFY MY QUESTION. IF YOU ANSWER THE QUESTION,
24 I'LL PRESUME THAT YOU UNDERSTOOD IT AS I ASKED THAT.
25 TRY TO MAKE ALL YOUR ANSWERS VERBAL, NODDING OF
5
1 THE HEAD AND SHAKING OF THE HEAD IS NOT EASY FOR THE COURT
2 REPORTER TO TAKE DOWN. AND AS YOU KNOW, UH-HUH AND
3 HU-HUHS LOOK VERY SIMILAR ON THE WRITTEN PAGE TO DETERMINE
4 WHETHER OR NOT THEY'RE AN AFFIRMATIVE OR A NEGATIVE.
5 OTHER THAN THAT, I DON'T THINK I NEED TO PREPARE
6 YOU PREP ANYMORE ON THAT.
7 I DO KNOW YOU'RE IN A UNIQUE POSITION AS AN
8 ATTORNEY AND ALSO AS A WITNESS. SO THERE COULD BE SOME
9 ATTORNEY/CLIENT PRIVILEGE ISSUES. I DO BELIEVE THAT YOU
10 KNOW WHAT THOSE WOULD BE, BUT I DO KNOW AT TODAY'S
11 DEPOSITION, YOU ARE TECHNICALLY REPRESENTED BY COUNSEL, SO
12 YOU MAY WANT TO WAIT BEFORE YOU ANSWER TO SEE IF YOUR
13 COUNSEL HAS ANY OBJECTIONS TO THAT. WE HAD A LITTLE BIT
14 OF A PROBLEM IN THE PREVIOUS DEPOSITION ON THAT?
15 MS. KENNEDY: COULD I MAKE ANOTHER COMMENT
16 FOR THE RECORD. I DON'T THINK WE HAD A PROBLEM
17 YOU SAY THAT IN THE EARLIER DEPOSITION TOO. I
18 WANT TO NOTE THAT.
19 MR. SANDERS: OKAY.
20 THE WITNESS: I UNDERSTAND ALL OF YOUR
21 PREFACE.
22 BY MR. SANDERS:
23 Q OKAY. GOOD DEAL.
24 MS. KENNEDY: GOOD.
25
6
1 BY MR. SANDERS:
2 Q JUST FOR SOME BASIC BACKGROUND QUESTIONS. STATE
3 YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD.
4 A RAYMOND ALLEN, A-L-L-E-N, MCLEOD.
5 Q AND WHERE DO YOU RESIDE?
6 A I RESIDE AT 4242 FOX HOLLOW CIRCLE, CASSELBERRY,
7 C-A-S-S-E-L-B-E-R--R-Y, FLORIDA.
8 Q AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU LIVED THERE?
9 A TWELVE OR 13 YEARS.
10 Q AND ARE YOU EMPLOYED?
11 A I AM.
12 Q AND HOW SO?
13 A I'M EMPLOYED BY A PA CALLED MCLEOD, MCLEOD, AND
14 MCLEOD, PA AND IT'S DOING BUSINESS AS A REGISTERED
15 FICTITIOUS NAME, MCLEOD LAW FIRM.
16 Q AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN SO EMPLOYED?
17 A I'VE BEEN WORKING IN THIS OFFICE PRE-CORPORATION
18 AND AS A PA SINCE 1981.
19 Q AND TECHNICALLY, YOUR JOB DESCRIPTION IS BEING
20 AN ATTORNEY, LAWYER?
21 A CORRECT.
22 Q OKAY. WHAT IS YOUR RELATIONSHIP TO THE MISS
23 FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, INC.?
24 A I'M A VOLUNTEER SERVING AS AN ATTORNEY, I GUESS
25 LEGAL COUNSEL, WHEN CALLED UPON TO GIVE OPINIONS.
7
1 Q WOULD YOU DESCRIBE THAT EVERYTHING THAT YOU DO
2 AS A VOLUNTEER FOR THE MISS FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT,
3 INC. TO BE SOME FORM OF LEGAL OPINION?
4 A I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO REPEAT. TRY TO EXPLAIN
5 THAT. IF I'M MEETING WITH MEMBERS OF THE BOARD OF
6 DIRECTORS OR OFFICERS, AM I ACTING IN MY CAPACITY AS AN
7 ATTORNEY?
8 Q I'LL PREFACE IT THIS WAY.
9 A PLEASE.
10 Q THERE'S BEEN SOME TESTIMONY THAT YOU MAY SIT IN
11 ON EXECUTIVE BOARD MEETINGS AND BOARD MEETINGS AS AN EX
12 OFFICIO MEMBER. WHEN YOU'RE SITTING IN ON THOSE BOARD
13 MEETINGS, EITHER EXECUTIVE OR REGULAR BOARD, I WANT TO
14 KNOW, ARE YOU THERE IN THE CAPACITY AS AN ATTORNEY OR ARE
15 YOU THERE AS A CAPACITY OF WHAT THEY'VE REFERRED TO AS AN
16 EX OFFICIO BOARD MEMBER?
17 A I THINK THE MINUTES REFLECT THAT I'M AN EX
18 OFFICIO MEMBER, BUT I AM NOT. I AM THEIR ONLY AS AN
19 ATTORNEY AT THE REQUEST OF THE BOARD. I'M NOT THERE FOR
20 FUN, AND I DON'T ATTEND EVERY MEETING.
21 Q OKAY. THEN I'M JUST GOING TO ASK YOU FOR -- YOU
22 CAN LET MS. KENNEDY MAKE A DECISION. THEN WOULD YOU
23 CONSIDER EVERY TIME YOU'RE IN A MEETING OF MISS FLORIDA'S
24 BOARD THAT ANYTHING THAT YOU HEAR SHOULD BE CONSIDERED
25 PRIVILEGED?
8
1 A IT'S GOING TO BE THEIR DECISION, NOT MINE. BUT
2 MY OPINION TODAY WOULD BE THAT IT'S IN THE CAPACITY AS AN
3 ATTORNEY SERVING THE PLEASURE OF THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS
4 AND ITS OFFICERS.
5 Q NOW, YOU DO NOT GET PAID ANYTHING FOR THIS
6 SERVICE?
7 A NO, SIR, NOR DO I SEND A BILL. CAN I BILL YOU
8 FOR TODAY? NO, SIR. RHETORICALLY ASKED.
9 Q YOU COULD. IT MIGHT NOT GET PAID.
10 A OKAY.
11 Q THAT BRINGS ME I GUESS TO THE NEXT THING. ON
12 YOUR NOTICE OF DEPOSITION TODAY IT HAD ASKED FOR
13 PRODUCTION OF POSSIBLE DOCUMENTS, ONE THROUGH 24.
14 FIRST OF ALL, I'LL ASK YOU, DO YOU HAVE ANY
15 DOCUMENTS THAT CORRESPOND TO THOSE REQUESTS IN YOUR
16 POSSESSION?
17 A I DO NOT.
18 MR. KENNEDY: ALSO, I WOULD LIKE TO GET ON
19 THE RECORD OUR OBJECTION TO THE DUCES TECUM NOT
20 BEING PROPERLY NOTICED AND ALSO TO THE EXTENT ANY
21 OF THOSE REQUESTS ARE THE SAME AS THE REQUEST TO
22 PRODUCE, WHICH WE'VE ALREADY OBJECTED TO. WE
23 MAINTAIN OUR OBJECTIONS TO THOSE AS WELL.
24 THE WITNESS: IN RESPONSE, I HAVE NONE OF
25 THEM.
9
1 BY MR. SANDERS:
2 Q AND MY SECOND QUESTION IS WHETHER YOU HAD SOME
3 THAT YOU CONSIDERED TO BE WORK PRODUCT OR PRIVILEGED IS
4 MOOT.
5 A YOU'VE ANSWERED THE QUESTION.
6 MS. KENNEDY: WAS THAT A NO?
7 THE WITNESS: I DIDN'T ANSWER IT. HE DIDN'T
8 ASK A QUESTION. HE PUT AN ANSWER WITH HIS
9 QUESTION.
10 MS. KENNEDY: OKAY.
11 BY MR. SANDERS:
12 Q HOW WELL DO YOU KNOW MARY SULLIVAN?
13 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
14 THE WITNESS: SOCIALLY, ONLY MET HER THROUGH
15 THE PAGEANT SYSTEM AND HAVE IN THAT CAPACITY.
16 BY MR. SANDERS:
17 Q HAVE YOU KNOWN HER LONG ENOUGH TO FORM AN
18 OPINION WITH REGARDS TO HER TRUTHFULNESS AND HONESTY?
19 A I'VE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH HER, SO I WOULD
20 SAY I HAVE AN OPINION THAT SHE'S BEEN TRUTHFUL WHERE I'VE
21 BEEN INVOLVED.
22 Q WHAT IS YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF HER POSITION WITH
23 THE CORPORATION KNOWN AS THE MISS FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP
24 PAGEANT, INC.?
25 A I BELIEVE SHE HAS BEEN ELECTED AS PRESIDENT OF
10
1 THE NON-PROFIT CORPORATION AND WITH THAT COMES THE TITLE
2 OF EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AS DESIGNATED BY THE MISS AMERICA
3 ORGANIZATION, INC.
4 Q YOU SAID YOU BELIEVE THAT SHE'S BEEN ELECTED.
5 DO YOU KNOW THAT SHE'S BEEN ELECTED?
6 A I BELIEVE I WAS AT A MEETING WHERE THERE WERE
7 ELECTIONS, YES, WHERE THEY REELECTED DIRECTORS AND THE
8 OFFICERS WERE ELECTED.
9 Q AND WAS THAT RECENTLY OR ANNUALLY OR --
10 A KEVIN, I'M NOT AT EVERY MEETING AND MINUTES ARE
11 GIVEN OUT ON THE MEETINGS THAT I'M AT, BUT IF I'M NOT
12 THERE I DON'T GET MINUTES, SO I'M NOT -- I CAN'T BE CLEAR
13 ON THAT -- MORE CLEAR ON THAT ANSWER. I'M SORRY.
14 Q WHEN YOU SAY YOU BELIEVE THAT SHE WAS ELECTED, I
15 GUESS, CAN YOU PIN A TIME FRAME ON THAT?
16 A I CANNOT. MINUTES WOULD HAVE TO REFLECT THAT.
17 I'M NOT -- I DON'T HAVE INDEPENDENT KNOWLEDGE OF THAT. I
18 KNOW HAVE HAVING BEEN INVOLVED IN OTHER NON-PROFIT
19 ORGANIZATIONS, MANY TIMES THE OFFICERS KIND OF STAY IN THE
20 POSITION BY DEFAULT. AGAIN, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY'RE ALL
21 VOLUNTEERS, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHEN THE ELECTIONS WERE.
22 Q DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH FORMING THE
23 CORPORATION?
24 A I DID.
25 Q OKAY. AND I GUESS THE NEXT QUESTION WOULD BE
11
1 DID YOU FORM IT?
2 A I DID.
3 Q OKAY. DO YOU KNOW IF THERE WERE ANY INITIAL
4 MINUTES OF THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS OR ANYTHING AFTER IT WAS
5 FORMED?
6 A FROM MEMORY, IF I CAN BACK A BIT, THE PAGEANT
7 THAT MARY SULLIVAN BECAME PRESIDENT AND THE CURRENT
8 FRANCHISE HOLDER OR LICENSED HOLDER THROUGH MISS AMERICA
9 WAS A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME FROM WHEN MISS AMERICA
10 ASKED IT TO TAKE OVER THE FRANCHISE AND TO PRODUCE A MISS
11 FLORIDA PAGEANT.
12 I REMEMBER -- THAT'S PROBABLY THE FIRST TIME I
13 EVER SPENT MUCH TIME WITH MARY SULLIVAN. SHE ASKED IF I
14 WITH SUFFER AS LEGAL COUNSEL, AND I DID A QUICK FILING OF
15 AN ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION, SO A FRANCHISE AGREEMENT
16 COULD BE AWARDED.
17 I'M CONFIDENT I DID STANDARD INITIAL OR
18 ORGANIZATIONAL MINUTES FOR THE CORPORATION. AND I'M
19 CONFIDENT I DID SOME STANDARD BYLAWS FOR A NON-PROFIT
20 CORPORATION. AND I WOULD HAVE SENT THOSE TO
21 MRS. SULLIVAN. AND I'M CONFIDENT SHE GOT THEM AND WHAT
22 SHE DID WITH THEM AFTER THAT, I'M REALLY KIND OF GOT OUT
23 OF MY CONTROL.
24 Q AGAIN, THOSE ARE NOT IN YOUR POSSESSION?
25 A NO, SIR.
12
1 Q OKAY. AND YOU SORT OF ANSWERED PART OF MY NEXT
2 QUESTION. DID YOU ACTUALLY DRAFT BYLAWS OR DID YOU BUY A
3 KIT THAT HAD BYLAWS IN IT? OR HOW ARE YOU SURE THAT YOU
4 HAVE DRAFTED BYLAWS WITH REGARDS TO THAT ORGANIZATION?
5 A I HAVE PREPARED MANY ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION
6 MINUTES AND BYLAWS FOR NON-PROFIT CORPORATIONS. I HAVE A
7 GENERIC SET THAT I'M SURE IS WHAT I USED. I DON'T BUY
8 CORPORATE KITS WITH PREPRINTED MINUTES OR BYLAWS. I'VE
9 BEEN DOING IT SO LONG, AND I'VE BEEN ABLE TO GET IT TYPE
10 INTO MY SYSTEM, SO I KNOW IT WAS NOT A PREPRINTED FORM.
11 Q AND WERE YOU AT ANY MEETINGS WHERE THOSE BYLAWS
12 WERE ACTUALLY ADOPTED?
13 A I DON'T RECALL.
14 Q AND MARY SULLIVAN AS FAR AS YOU KNOW WOULD HAVE
15 THOSE IF THEY EXIST IN HER POSSESSION?
16 A I WOULD SUSPECT, BUT I DON'T KNOW. I DID NOT
17 HAVE -- I'M CONFIDENT I ORDERED A CORPORATE KIT, KEVIN. I
18 PROBABLY WITH HAVE GIVEN THE CORPORATE KIT AT A MEETING
19 SOON THERE AFTER AT SOME POINT, AND I DO NOT HAVE, AND
20 HAVE NOT HAD POSSESSION OF ANY CORPORATE KIT FOR YEARS.
21 Q AND IF YOU DID PROVIDE THOSE I GUESS AT A
22 MEETING, THERE WAS A SECRETARY THERE WHO WOULD HAVE
23 PROBABLY TAKEN MINUTES AND THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN REFERENCED
24 IN THE MINUTES?
25 A I WOULD SUSPECT SO.
13
1 Q OKAY. OTHER THAN THE INITIAL MINUTES AND THE
2 GENERIC SET OF BYLAWS THAT YOU DRAFTED UP, DID YOU DRAFT
3 ANY OTHER RULES OR REGULATIONS OR ANY WRITTEN
4 UNDERSTANDINGS OF HOW THE BOARD WAS TO FUNCTION AND WHAT
5 JOBS EACH PERSON WAS TO TAKE?
6 A I'M CONFIDENT I DID NOT.
7 Q I'M GOING TO ASK A TWO PART QUESTION. DID YOU
8 DRAFT ANYTHING OR PUT IN WRITING ANYTHING WITH REGARDS TO
9 THE RULES, REGULATIONS OR GOVERNING CONTRACT BETWEEN THE
10 MISS FLORIDA ORGANIZATION AND LOCAL FRANCHISES?
11 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
12 THE WITNESS: I WOULD PREFACE IT BY SAYING
13 THAT MISS AMERICA SENDS A FRANCHISE AGREEMENT AT
14 THE TIME THAT THIS GROUP GOT THE FRANCHISE FROM
15 MISS AMERICA. AND IT'S IN LAW SCHOOL WE WOULD
16 CALL IT A CLASSIC COHESION CONTRACT. YOU TAKE IT
17 OR YOU LEAVE IT.
18 AND THEY ALSO HAVE A LOCAL FRANCHISE
19 AGREEMENT THAT IS THEN PROVIDE HAD FOR THE STATE
20 PASSION TO GIVE TO LOCAL FRANCHISES. I THINK THEY
21 CHANGED IT FROM A FRANCHISE TO WHAT IS CALLED A
22 LICENSE. IT'S THE SAME AS WHAT WE WOULD CALL IT A
23 FRANCHISE. BUT I DIDN'T BELIEVE THERE WERE ANY
24 CHANGES THERE MAY HAVE BEEN SOME SPECIFIC RULES
25 DEALING WITH SCHOLARSHIPS, BUT I ACCIDENT RECALL
14
1 RIGHT NOW.
2 BY MR. SANDERS:
3 Q SO TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE THERE WERE NO RULES OR
4 BYLAWS OR REGULATIONS OR ANYTHING WRITTEN BY YOU OR ANYONE
5 ON THE MISS FLORIDA BOARD OR REPRESENTATIVES OF MISS
6 FLORIDA THAT WOULD IN ANY WAY SET OUT REGULATIONS FOR
7 LOCAL PAGEANTS?
8 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
9 THE WITNESS: I CAN ONLY SAY WHAT I DID OR
10 DIDN'T DO. I DON'T RECALL DOING IT MYSELF. WHAT
11 OTHER MEMBERS OF THE BOARD OR OFFICERS MAY HAVE
12 DONE, I DON'T RECALL.
13 BY MR. SANDERS:
14 Q AND IF THEY DID IT, AT LEAST TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE,
15 THEY HAVE NEVER PRESENTED THOSE TO YOU FOR APPROVAL OR
16 REVIEW?
17 A IF THEY DID, I WOULD HAVE REVIEWED IT AND GIVEN
18 AN OPINION, BUT I JUST DON'T RECALL ANY SPECIFICS
19 FOLLOWING UP, KEVIN. THERE ARE TIMES WHERE THERE WILL BE
20 A CONTRACT OR SOMETHING THAT MARY WILL HAVE THAT I WOULD
21 HAVE LOOKED AT AND MADE COMMENTS. BUT THAT'S MY ROLE AS
22 AN ATTORNEY. BUT AS FAR AS THE LOCAL FRANCHISE AGREEMENT,
23 IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE COMING INTO?
24 Q WELL, I GUESS I'LL TRY TO -- I THINK YOU
25 INDICATED THAT THE LOCAL FRANCHISE AGREEMENT IS A PRODUCT
15
1 FROM MISS AMERICA?
2 A THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING, YES.
3 Q AND WHAT I WAS ASKING, HAS MISS FLORIDA, EITHER
4 THROUGH YOU OR ANYONE THAT YOU KNOW OF, DRAFTED ANY
5 SUPPLEMENTAL REGULATIONS OR AGREEMENTS OR CONTROLLING
6 LANGUAGE FOR WHAT THE FRANCHISES CAN AND CANNOT DO?
7 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
8 THE WITNESS: AND I THINK THERE MAY HAVE
9 BEEN SOMETHING DEALING WITH SCHOLARSHIPS.
10 BY MR. SANDERS:
11 Q JUST SCHOLARSHIPS?
12 A BECAUSE LOCAL PAGEANTS ALSO HAVE THE RIGHT TO
13 PUT AN ADDENDUM ON THEIR FRANCHISE ON HOW SCHOLARSHIPS ARE
14 TO BE PAID.
15 Q AND I HATE TO BELABOR THE POINT. SO TO YOUR
16 KNOWLEDGE, THERE IS NOT SOMETHING THAT'S HANDED OUT TO THE
17 LOCAL FRANCHISE AND SAY HERE ARE YOUR RULES FOLLOW THEM,
18 DO THIS, DON'T DO THAT?
19 A KEVIN, THERE ARE DISCUSSIONS AS YOU'VE BEEN AT
20 MANY WORKSHOPS WHERE THE LOCAL FRANCHISE AGREEMENT WOULD
21 BE DISCUSSED AND CHANGES FOR THE NEXT YEAR WOULD BE
22 DISCUSSED AT THE WORKSHOPS. AND TRY TO POINT OUT ANYTHING
23 THAT MISS AMERICA MAY HAVE CHANGED. AS FAR AS ADDENDUMS,
24 I DON'T RECALL RIGHT NOW ANY SPECIFIC ADDENDUMS THAT MAY
25 HAVE BEEN PUT ON THE LOCAL FRANCHISE AGREEMENT. IF THERE
16
1 WERE, I'M SORRY I DON'T REMEMBER THEM.
2 Q SO AGAIN, JUST TO BE CLEAR, ANYTHING WITH
3 REGARDS TO LOCAL FRANCHISES, YOU BELIEVE WOULD BE IN THE
4 MISS AMERICA LOCAL FRANCHISE AGREEMENT?
5 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
6 THE WITNESS: WE START WITH THE LOCAL
7 FRANCHISE AGREEMENT AS REQUIRED BY THE MISS
8 AMERICA. EACH LOCAL CAN DO DIFFERENT ADDENDUMS
9 WITHIN THEIR SELF AND THEY ALSO WOULD SEND THAT TO
10 THE MISS FLORIDA PAGEANT FOR APPROVAL AS I RECALL,
11 BUT I'M NOT IN THE APPROVAL. THAT WASN'T MY ROLE.
12 BY MR. SANDERS:
13 Q WHAT WOULD YOU DESCRIBE YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH
14 KEVIN SANDERS?
15 A I ALWAYS GOT ALONG WITH KEVIN IN THE THIRD
16 PERSON AND THE PERSON ACROSS THE TABLE FROM ME.
17 Q AND THE ONLY REASON I REFER TO MYSELF IN THE
18 THIRD PERSON IS FOR CLARIFICATION ON THE RECORD.
19 A I UNDERSTAND. YOU AND I HAVE BEEN ALLIES ON
20 MANY THINGS. WE MAY HAVE ARGUED ON OTHER THINGS, BUT WE
21 WORKED TOGETHER PRETTY WELL OVER THE YEARS.
22 Q DO YOU RECALL ANY CONVERSATIONS WITH KEVIN
23 SANDERS WITH REGARDS TO CIRCUMSTANCES AFTER THE BIRTH OF
24 HIS FIRST CHILD?
25 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT.
17
1 THE WITNESS: THAT'S WIDE OPEN.
2 MS. KENNEDY: I OBJECT TO THE FORM.
3 THE WITNESS: IF YOU CAN TIGHTEN THAT UP,
4 KEVIN. I REMEMBER YOU WITH THE FIRST I-PHONE I
5 HAD EVER SEEN. YOU HAD ALL THESE WONDERFUL
6 PICTURES ON YOUR I-PHONE THAT YOU'RE IN PRIDE
7 SHOWING PICTURES AND VIDEOS AND SUCH. I DON'T
8 KNOW IF THAT WAS SIERRA, YOUR SECOND CHILD.
9 SIERRA IS THE SECOND?
10 BY MR. SANDERS:
11 Q SIERRA IS THE FIRST?
12 A I REMEMBER THAT SEEING PICTURES I SUSPECT OF
13 PICTURES OF SIERRA. THE SECOND CHILD, I DON'T KNOW WHAT
14 TIME FRAME WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. I WAS PROUD OF YOU BEING
15 A DAD SO.
16 Q I'M TALKING ABOUT ANYTHING THAT WE SHARED WITH
17 REGARDS TO POST-PARTUM DEPRESSION?
18 A I DON'T FRANKLY RECALL THAT. I KNOW WE TALKED
19 ABOUT THE JOYS OF PARENTING. I WARNED YOU HAVING BEEN
20 INVOLVED IN RAISING FIVE. IT'S NOT AN EASY TASK. YOU
21 WERE ANXIOUS AND HAPPY TO BE A FATHER. I WAS PROUD OF
22 YOU. WHETHER I TALKED ABOUT POST-PARTUM OR YOU MENTIONED
23 IT, I FRANKLY REMEMBER, KEVIN. WE WOULD HAVE LUNCH OR
24 DINNER AT DIFFERENT TIMES AT THE MISS FLORIDA PAGEANT.
25 AND TALK ABOUT OUR LIVES.
18
1 Q NOW, LET ME SHOW YOU THIS. LET ME SHOW YOU WHAT
2 WAS INTRODUCED IN TO EVIDENCE AS PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT 14 IN
3 MARY SULLIVAN'S DEPOSITION ON DECEMBER 9, 2008. IT'S A
4 LETTER FROM KEVIN SANDERS TO YOU AND THEN IT LOOKS LIKE
5 YOU'RE FORWARDING OF SUCH TO MARY CROWN MARY. WOULD THAT
6 BE MARY SULLIVAN?
7 A THOSE ARE ABBREVIATIONS, BUT YES.
8 MS. KENNEDY: THAT WAS INTRODUCED OR MARKED
9 AS AN EXHIBIT.
10 MR. SANDERS: I'M SORRY, IT WAS MARKED AS AN
11 EXHIBIT.
12 MS. KENNEDY: THANK YOU.
13 THE WITNESS: IT'S FROM ME. IT LOOKS LIKE
14 AN E-MAIL I WOULD HAVE RECEIVED FROM YOU AND I
15 FORWARDED IT TO MARY WITHOUT READING THE TEXT. I
16 CAN TELL BY THE HEADERS.
17 FRANKLY, SOMETIMES AN E-MAIL WOULD COME FROM
18 A PAGEANT AND I WOULD SAY I DON'T HAVE TO DEAL
19 WITH THIS AND I CAN MOVE IT ON AND I WOULD FORWARD
20 IT TO MARY. IT'S HER ROLE, NOT MINE.
21 BY MR. SANDERS:
22 Q DO YOU RECALL WHAT, IF ANYTHING, HAPPENED AFTER
23 YOU FORWARDED THAT E-MAIL TO MARY SULLIVAN?
24 A LET ME READ YOUR E-MAIL TO SEE IF IT HELPS
25 REFRESH MY MEMORY. OKAY. WHAT'S YOUR QUESTION?
19
1 Q DO YOU RECALL ANY EVENTS THAT OCCURRED AFTER YOU
2 HAD FORWARDED THAT E-MAIL TO MARY SULLIVAN. I'LL GUESS
3 I'LL JUST PREFACE THAT IT OCCURRED BETWEEN MYSELF, YOU AND
4 MARY SULLIVAN?
5 A THERE WAS A TELEPHONE CONFERENCE THAT I PUT
6 TOGETHER. AND I CAN'T RECALL, KEVIN, IF THIS E-MAIL WAS
7 SENT TO ME PRIOR TO ANY CONVERSATIONS OR IF IT CAME OUT OF
8 THE COLD. I DON'T RECALL. I DID RECOMMEND THE E-MAIL. I
9 REMEMBER FORWARDING IT TO MARY, SOMETIME AFTER THAT THERE
10 WAS A CALL THAT YOU AND I HAD AND I HAVE THIS PHONE SYSTEM
11 THAT I CAN CONFERENCE IN A THIRD PARTY. I SAID LET'S ADD
12 MARY, AND WE HAD A CONVERSATION. IS THAT RESPONSIVE TO
13 YOUR QUESTION?
14 Q PRETTY MUCH.
15 LET ME SHOW YOU I GUESS ANOTHER E-MAIL. AGAIN
16 IT HAS MY ORIGINAL E-MAIL THAT YOU FORWARDED TO MARY
17 SULLIVAN ON IT, BUT IT SEEMS TO HAVE A REPLY FROM YOU, SEE
18 IF THAT HELPS REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION.
19 MS. KENNEDY: IS THIS AN EXHIBIT THE FIRST
20 ONE?
21 MR. SANDERS: WELL, NOT YET, BUT LIKELY,
22 YES.
23 THE WITNESS: I CAN TELL IT CAME FROM ME TO
24 YOU BECAUSE OF THE TEXT AND THE LOGO OR THE MY
25 NAME AND INFORMATION, BUT THERE'S NO DATE OR TIME
20
1 INDICATING WHEN I SENT IT TO YOU. BUT I REMEMBER
2 SENDING YOU AN E-MAIL TO CALL ME I BELIEVE.
3 MS. KENNEDY: I OBJECT TO THAT E-MAIL
4 BECAUSE I BELIEVE THERE'S A COPY THAT HAS THAT
5 INFORMATION ON IT. GO AHEAD.
6 BY MR. SANDERS:
7 Q SO YOU'RE UNCLEAR I GUESS WHETHER OR NOT YOU
8 SENT THE -- WELL, LET ME ASK YOU FROM A LOGIC STANDPOINT.
9 YOU WOULDN'T HAVE ASKED ME TO CALL IF I ALREADY SPOKEN
10 WITH YOU AND MARY, WOULD YOU?
11 A I AGREE. I THINK THAT THIS E-MAIL FROM YOU
12 DATED SEPTEMBER 18, '06 AT: 31 P.M. WAS UNSOLICITED BY ME
13 AND UNEXPECTED BY ME. I WROTE YOU AND SAID PLEASE CALL ME
14 TO DISCUSS IT. AND THEN I ALSO FORWARDED IT TO MARY
15 PROBABLY WITHIN THE SAME PERIOD OF TIME.
16 Q THEN --
17 A EXCUSE ME -- BECAUSE KEVIN, I'M SAYING TO MARY,
18 I HAVE REPLIED ASKING HIM TO CALL ME THIS AFTERNOON. SO
19 THEY WERE PRETTY MUCH CLOSE TO THE SAME TIME.
20 Q AND WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BEST OF YOUR
21 RECOLLECTION DURING THAT TELEPHONE CALL?
22 A WE TALKED. WHETHER I INITIATED THE CALL OR YOU
23 I DON'T FRANKLY RECALL RIGHT NOW. I SUSPECT YOU CALLED
24 ME. WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT -- I'M CONFIDENT WE
25 WOULD HAVE TALKED ABOUT YOUR E-MAIL BECAUSE I WAS UNAWARE
21
1 OF ANYTHING SURROUNDING THIS E-MAIL THAT WOULD HAVE
2 PROMPTED IT. AND I SUSPECT WE DIDN'T TALK LONG AND I SAID
3 LET'S GET MARY SULLIVAN ON THE PHONE, AND WE WERE ABLE TO
4 GET HER IN A CONFERENCE CALL, THE THREE OF US WERE
5 INVOLVED.
6 Q AND I GUESS BEFORE WE GET INTO THE CONVERSATION
7 WITH MARY SULLIVAN, WHY DID YOU WANT TO GET MARY ON THE
8 PHONE?
9 A I DON'T HAVE A DOG IN THAT FIGHT. IT'S NOT
10 BETWEEN ME. I'M JUST THERE. IT WAS BETWEEN YOU AND MISS
11 FLORIDA BOARD THAT HAD AN ISSUE. I DON'T MAKE DECISIONS.
12 I DON'T VOTE. I'M NOT ON THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS. SO IT
13 HAD NOTHING -- I HAD NOTHING THAT I COULD COMMIT TO MISS
14 FLORIDA BOARD FOR OR FOR YOU EITHER.
15 Q DID YOU BELIEVE AT THAT TIME GETTING MARY ON THE
16 PHONE MIGHT HELP TO RESOLVE THE ISSUE?
17 A I WAS BEING A MEDIATOR TRYING TO GET THE TWO
18 SIDES TOGETHER TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS YOU HAD, AND AGAIN,
19 I WAS UNAWARE OF WHAT WAS GOING ON.
20 Q TO THE BEST OF YOUR RECOLLECTION, HOW DID THAT
21 CONVERSATION GO WITH ALL THREE OF US ON THE LINE?
22 A I WAS PROBABLY MORE OF A LISTENER. I WAS A
23 FACILITATOR OF THE CALL AND I WAS LISTENING. THERE WERE
24 CONVERSATIONS BETWEEN YOU AND MARY DEALING WITH THINGS
25 AGAIN I WAS UNAWARE OF. I LEARNED ABOUT A WEB SITE. I
22
1 STILL TO THIS DAY HAVE NEVER SEEN. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT
2 WEB SITE THAT WAS DISCUSSED.
3 I REMEMBER THERE WAS TALK ABOUT THE PAGEANT.
4 THE NORTH FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP ORGANIZATION CONTINUING AS
5 MISS JACKSONVILLE OR NOT. AND IF THERE WERE ALTERNATIVES,
6 AND MORE OF THE CONVERSATION BETWEEN YOU AND MARY BECAUSE
7 AGAIN, I WAS JUST ABLE TO BRING A CONFERENCE CALL
8 TOGETHER.
9 Q DO YOU RECALL WHAT THE RESULTS OF THAT
10 CONVERSATION WAS?
11 A I THINK THERE WAS GOING TO BE FURTHER
12 CONVERSATION. WHICH WOULD NOT HAVE INVOLVED ME, THAT
13 THERE WAS INFORMATION WOULD BE PROVIDED BY YOU I BELIEVE
14 TO MARY OR TO THE BOARD OF THE MISS FLORIDA PAGEANT, WHO
15 WOULD HAVE THE DECISION MAKING.
16 Q I GUESS I'LL GO BACK. FROM THE LETTER THAT I
17 SENT TO YOU, HAD YOU EVER INSTRUCTED JENNIFER HERRINGTON
18 TO GO AND PICK UP ANY DOCUMENTS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT FROM
19 CAMY SANDERS OR KEVIN SANDERS WITH REGARDS TO THE MISS
20 JACKSONVILLE OR MISS FIRST COAST PASSION?
21 A NO, BECAUSE I DON'T RECALL EVER TALKING TO HER
22 ABOUT THE SITUATION.
23 Q SO IF SHE WERE TO EVER INDICATE THAT YOU HAD
24 SPECIFICALLY GIVEN HER INSTRUCTIONS ON THAT, THAT WOULD BE
25 AN UNTRUTH?
23
1 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
2 THE WITNESS: KEVIN, I DON'T RECALL EVER
3 TALKING TO JENNIFER ABOUT THIS SITUATION. IF I
4 DID, I WOULD HAVE BEEN IN A CONFERENCE WITH MARY.
5 AND I DID NOT INITIATE. AGAIN, I WOULD HAVE BEEN
6 A LISTENER. I DO NOT RECALL TALKING TO JENNIFER.
7 I DON'T REALLY KNOW JENNIFER VERY WELL. I DON'T
8 BELIEVE I WOULD HAVE CALLED HER AND I DON'T
9 REMEMBER HER CALLING ME, KEVIN.
10 MR. SANDERS: I GUESS WHAT WE HE WILL DO IS
11 MAKE THE --
12 THE WITNESS: DO YOU WANT ADDITIONAL COPIES.
13 MR. SANDERS: NO, THESE ARE THE ADDITIONAL
14 COPIES? THANK YOU THOUGH.
15 THE WITNESS: TRYING TO BE ACCOMMODATING.
16 MR. SANDERS: WE WILL MAKE EXHIBIT ONE THE
17 E-MAIL OF 9-18-2006 AT 3:34 P.M. NUMBER ONE, THAT
18 WAS ALSO INTRODUCED INTO THE MARY SULLIVAN
19 DEPOSITION AS EXHIBIT 14.
20 MS. KENNEDY: THAT'S FROM RAY TO MARY?
21 MR. SANDERS: THAT'S THE ONE FROM RAY TO
22 MARY WITH A COPY OF THE LETTER FROM KEVIN SANDERS.
23 AND THEN NUMBER TWO, WOULD BE THE COPY OF
24 THE LETTER FROM KEVIN SANDERS THAT IS UNDATED, BUT
25 WOULD APPEAR TO BE A REPLY FROM RAY TO KEVIN TO
24
1 TELL HIM TO CALL.
2 (WHEREUPON, THE REFERRED-TO DOCUMENTS WERE
3 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS EXHIBITS 1 AND 2.)
4 BY MR. SANDERS:
5 Q LET ME SHOW YOU ANOTHER E-MAIL. YOU MAY WANT TO
6 LOOK AT THE OTHER ONES. MAYBE JUST FOR THE TIME
7 SIGNATURES. DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT E-MAIL? AGAIN, I
8 BELIEVE THAT WAS INTRODUCED AS EXHIBIT NUMBER 15 AT THE
9 MARY SULLIVAN DEPOSITION?
10 MS. KENNEDY: MARKED AS AN EXHIBIT?
11 MR. SANDERS: MARKED AS AN EXHIBIT, YES.
12 THE WITNESS: DO I INDEPENDENTLY REMEMBER?
13 NO. I'M CONFIDENT I RECEIVED IT. THE E-MAIL WAS
14 TO ME. THAT'S MY E-MAIL ADDRESS. I'M SURE YOU
15 WOULD HAVE HAD THE -- YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE
16 ENOUGH TO SEND THAT KIND OF A NOTE.
17 MR. SANDERS: WE WILL MAKE THAT THREE.
18 (WHEREUPON, THE REFERRED-TO DOCUMENT WAS
19 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS EXHIBIT 3.)
20 BY MR. SANDERS:
21 Q LET ME SHOW YOU AN E-MAIL. IT'S ACTUALLY A
22 DOUBLE E-MAIL. IT'S TWO PAGES. THE ORIGINAL CAME FROM
23 MARY CROWN MARY TO KEVIN SANDERS ONE AT BELLSOUTH DOT NET,
24 IT INDICATES IT WAS CC'D TO RAMCLEOD.
25 A RAMCLEOD.
25
1 Q RAMCLEOD. THERE WE GO. AT MCLEOD LAW FIRM DOT
2 COM, AND THEN A RESPONSE FROM KEVIN SANDERS UP AT THE TOP.
3 I'LL ASK YOU TO LOOK AT THOSE TWO E-MAILS AND TELL ME IF
4 YOU REMEMBER RECEIVING THAT.
5 A I BELIEVE I REMEMBER SEEING THAT, YES -- EXCUSE
6 ME -- KEVIN, I SAW HER MESSAGE TO YOU. I WAS NOT COPIED
7 WITH YOUR REPLY AT THE TOP THAT YOU WROTE TO MARY.
8 MS. KENNEDY: I'LL HAVE A STANDING OBJECTION
9 ON THE RECORD. THIS WITNESS HAS TESTIFIED THAT HE
10 DID NOT HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE OF THIS TOP PART OF THE
11 E-MAIL.
12 BY MR. SANDERS:
13 Q BUT YOU SAW THE BOTTOM PART, YOU RECEIVED THAT
14 FROM MARY?
15 A I'M CONFIDENT I RECEIVED IT LOOKING AT THE
16 HEADER.
17 Q OKAY. NOW, IN HER E-MAIL, SHE INDICATES I'M
18 PLEASED THAT WE COULD TALK AND RESOLVE MOST OF THE ISSUES.
19 WE VALUE YOUR LONG TIME PARTICIPATION AND WANT TO SEE IT
20 CONTINUE.
21 WAS THAT YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE TELEPHONE
22 CONFERENCE THAT WAS HAD THE DAY BEFORE?
23 A I REMEMBER SPECIFICALLY IN THE CONVERSATION YOU
24 AND MARY TALKING, NOT ME, THAT THERE WAS A DISCUSSION THAT
25 IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE TO PUT A PAGEANT ON THAT OCTOBER.
26
1 KEVIN, LOOKING BACK -- TELL ME IF I'M RIGHT -- WASN'T I
2 SUPPOSED TO JUDGE THAT YEAR?
3 Q YOU WERE.
4 A SO I WAS SCHEDULED TO BE A JUDGE AT YOUR
5 PAGEANT, AND THEN I FOUND OUT THERE WAS NO PAGEANT, AND I
6 BELIEVE THE DISCUSSION WAS THAT YOU WOULD NEED TO REFOCUS
7 AND REORGANIZE TO COME BACK WITH A SPRING PAGEANT IS WHAT
8 I UNDERSTAND. THE DETAILS I'M NOT SURE OF, BUT I REMEMBER
9 THAT WAS A GOAL I THINK THAT WAS EXPRESSED BETWEEN YOU AND
10 MARY. I WAS A LISTENER. I WAS NOT AN ACTIVE PARTICIPANT.
11 Q DID MARY SEEM TO HAVE, TO YOUR RECOLLECTION, ANY
12 PROBLEMS WITH THE REORGANIZATION AND THE MOVING OF THE
13 PAGEANT TO A LATER DATE?
14 MR. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
15 THE WITNESS: I DIDN'T SEE ANY PROBLEM FOR
16 MARY DOING IT. MARY WANTS PAGEANTS. THE MISS
17 FLORIDA NEEDS NUMBERS, AND SO I'M CONFIDENT THAT
18 SHE WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO HAVING YOU HAVING A
19 SPRING PAGEANT, YES. THERE ARE CERTAIN
20 PREREQUISITES APPARENTLY SHE REQUESTED AS PUT IN
21 HERE, BUT YES, I THINK SHE SEEMED VERY POSITIVE
22 ABOUT YOU TAKING THE PAGEANT IN THE SPRING,
23 FEBRUARY OR MARCH OR APRIL. THERE I THINK THE
24 DEADLINE WAS PROBABLY EARLY APRIL.
25
27
1 BY MR. SANDERS:
2 Q AND MARY, I THINK YOU'VE INDICATED WAS PRESIDENT
3 OF THE MISS FLORIDA ORGANIZATION, BUT DO YOU KNOW WHAT
4 KIND OF POWERS OR AUTHORITY THAT SHE HAD WITH REGARD TO
5 THE PAGEANT?
6 A SHE IS A MEMBER OF THE BOARD. THE BYLAWS MAY
7 HAVE A SPECIFIC DESCRIPTION. I DON'T RECALL. AND AGAIN,
8 I SUSPECT BYLAWS ARE NOT ADDRESS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR UNLESS
9 SHE PUTS SOMETHING IN LATER ON, BUT MY GENERIC ONES WOULD
10 NOT HAVE PROBABLY CALLED THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR. SHE'S
11 ONE VOTE ON THE BOARD.
12 Q AND HAVE YOU BEEN WITH HER WHEN SHE HAS BEEN
13 ABLE TO WORK OUT OTHER SITUATIONS THAT MAY BE HAVE BEEN
14 CONFLICTS OR ANYTHING?
15 MR. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
16 THE WITNESS: WELL, THINGS OTHER THAN NORTH
17 FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP ORGANIZATIONS?
18 BY MR. SANDERS:
19 Q CORRECT.
20 A I HAVE BEEN INVOLVED WHEN THERE ARE OTHER
21 ISSUES, YES. AGAIN, I ACT TRYING TO BE A FACILITATOR, BUT
22 MORE OF AN OBSERVER, YES.
23 Q BUT HAS MARY PRETTY MUCH THE PERSON WHO WORKS TO
24 RESOLVE THOSE ISSUES?
25 A SHE'S THE ONLY ONE THAT SPENDS MOST OF HER TIME
28
1 DEALING WITH THE MISS FLORIDA ISSUES. SHE IS A VOLUNTEER
2 AS WELL.
3 Q AND AGAIN, YOU SAID YOU FOUND MARY SULLIVAN TO
4 BE A TRUTHFUL AND HONEST PERSON.
5 A FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, YES, SIR.
6 Q AND IF SHE'S INDICATED IN THIS E-MAIL THAT YOU
7 RECEIVED THAT SHE WAS WANTING TO WORK THINGS OUT,
8 CONSIDERED THAT THE ISSUES HAVE MOSTLY BEEN RESOLVED AND
9 LOOKING FORWARD TO PARTICIPATION IN THE PAGEANT, THOSE
10 WOULD BE TRUTHFUL AND HONEST STATEMENTS BY HER?
11 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
12 THE WITNESS: THOSE ARE HER WORDS. I
13 WOULD -- I ACCEPTED THEM I'M SURE WHEN I SAW THEM.
14 BY MR. SANDERS:
15 Q YOU WOULD HAVE NO REASON BASED ON YOUR WORKING
16 WITH HER TO BELIEVE THAT SHE MEANT SOMETHING ELSE OR THAT
17 SHE DIDN'T MEAN THEM AT ALL?
18 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
19 THE WITNESS: THE DOCUMENT SPEAKS FOR
20 ITSELF. I WOULD THINK THAT WAS A TRUTHFUL SET OF
21 STATEMENTS THAT SHE MADE. SHE DRAFTED IT. I
22 DIDN'T. IT'S GETTING WARM.
23 BY MR. SANDERS:
24 Q I KNOW.
25 NOW, YOU HAD SAID THAT SHE PUT IN SOME
29
1 PREREQUISITES WITH REGARDS TO -- DO YOU KNOW IF ANY OR ALL
2 OF THE PREREQUISITES WERE COMPLETED?
3 A INDEPENDENTLY TODAY, I DON'T KNOW THAT WOULD
4 HAVE BEEN A DECISION OF THE BOARD OF AND NOT ME ANYWAY.
5 MR. SANDERS: I GUESS THIS WOULD BE FOUR.
6 (WHEREUPON, THE REFERRED-TO DOCUMENT WAS
7 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS EXHIBIT 4.)
8 BY MR. SANDERS:
9 Q AT SOME POINT IN TIME, EVEN THOUGH THE E-MAIL
10 SAYS THAT MARY WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO WORKING AND KEEPING
11 THE PAGEANT TOGETHER, DID YOU FIND OUT THAT KEVIN SANDERS
12 AND THE NORTH FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP ORGANIZATION DID NOT
13 RETAIN THE PAGEANT?
14 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
15 THE WITNESS: I DID.
16 BY MR. SANDERS:
17 Q AND DID YOU EVER HAVE ANY DISCUSSIONS WITH KEVIN
18 SANDERS ABOUT THAT?
19 A KEVIN, I DON'T REMEMBER IF WE TALKED AGAIN AFTER
20 THAT MID-SEPTEMBER. WE PROBABLY DID BECAUSE WE WOULD HAVE
21 TALKED, BUT I DON'T RECALL. I REMEMBER SEEING YOU COMING
22 INTO THE UCF BUILDING WHEN I WAS LEAVING ON THAT SATURDAY.
23 I REMEMBER SPEAKING TO YOU. I THINK I INTRODUCED YOU TO
24 THE GUY I WAS TAKING TAKE THE AIRPORT BUT I DON'T.
25 Q DID YOU KNOW AT THAT TIME THAT THE JACKSONVILLE
30
1 FRANCHISE HAD NOT BEEN RENEWED AND KEVIN SANDERS' NAME FOR
2 THE NORTH SCHOLARSHIP -- NORTH FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP
3 ORGANIZATION?
4 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
5 THE WITNESS: I DID NOT KNOW BECAUSE I WAS
6 NOT AT A MEETING WHEN THERE WERE DISCUSSIONS. I
7 WAS AT THE JUDGE'S CONFERENCE. MY RESPONSIBILITY
8 WAS TO TAKE THAT TALKER -- THE LECTURER BACK TO
9 THE AIRPORT. I WAS NOT AT ANY MEETING.
10 BY MR. SANDERS:
11 Q DO YOU RECALL GETTING A TELEPHONE CALL FROM ME
12 THAT SAME DAY INDICATING THAT THE FRANCHISE HAD NOT BEEN
13 RENEWED?
14 A I REMEMBER NOW YOU MAY HAVE CALLED ME WHILE I
15 WAS ON THE WAY TO THE AIRPORT OR THE WAY OUT. I KNOW THAT
16 THERE WAS A MEETING. IT WAS SET FOR A CERTAIN TIME.
17 DETAILS, I DON'T RECALL. I WASN'T GOING TO BE THERE, SO
18 IT DIDN'T MATTER TO ME. I KNEW WHEN YOU CAME UP THE
19 STAIRS, YOU INDICATED YOU WERE RUNNING LATE. AND YOU
20 CALLED -- I BELIEVE YOU CALLED ME ON THE WAY TO THE
21 AIRPORT, YES.
22 Q AND DO YOU RECALL IF I FOLLOWED THAT TELEPHONE
23 CONVERSATION UP WITH THIS E-MAIL. AND IT WOULD BE MY
24 FIRST -- IS THE E-MAIL FROM MISS JACKSONVILLE TO RAY
25 MCLEOD, AND THEN YOUR RESPONSE.
31
1 A WELL, THIS IS SOMETIME -- THIS IS OCTOBER 17.
2 IT LOOKS LIKE YOU WROTE ME. THAT'S MY ADDRESS. ANY WORD
3 WAS -- I THINK FRIDAY WAS THE 13. YOU CALLED. THE
4 MEETING WAS THE 14. I'M GETTING MY DATES HERE. YOU
5 CALLED ME ON THE AFTERNOON OF THE 14 TO SAY THAT THE
6 FRANCHISE WAS NOT AWARDED. I DON'T KNOW WHY YOUR QUESTION
7 TO ME WITH ANY WORD. LET ME SEE WHAT I WROTE. I REMEMBER
8 SENDING THAT E-MAIL, YES.
9 Q AND IN THAT E-MAIL, YOU INDICATE THAT YOUR
10 UNDERSTANDING OF WHY THE PAGEANT WASN'T RENEWED FOR THE
11 NORTH FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP ORGANIZATION WAS THAT THE PLAN
12 FOR THE PAGEANT WAS UNCLEAR?
13 A AT THE TIME IT MEANT FOR ME -- IT MEANT
14 SOMETHING TO ME TO WRITE THAT. THAT'S NOW WHAT OVER TWO
15 YEARS AGO. I PUT IN QUOTES PLAN. I WASN'T PRIVY TO THE
16 MEETING. I WAS PROBABLY PARAPHRASING FROM WHAT I HEARD
17 FROM MARY. OBVIOUSLY I WAS.
18 Q DID -- I DON'T THINK I CAN ASK THAT QUESTION.
19 A OH GIVE IT A SHOT.
20 MS. KENNEDY: I WOULD JUST OBJECT.
21 BY MR. SANDERS:
22 Q I'LL ASK IT THIS WAY MAYBE. WHEN YOU WROTE THIS
23 LETTER, WHICH YOU SEEM TO HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF I FADED
24 MEMORY ON, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, WAS THAT THE ONLY REASON
25 THAT YOU KNEW OF THAT THE FRANCHISE WASN'T APPROVED IN THE
32
1 NAME OF NORTH FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP ORGANIZATION?
2 A I SUSPECT I WAS -- I'LL USE THE TERM
3 PARROTING -- I WAS REPEATING WHAT WAS TOLD TO ME. THAT'S
4 WHAT THE BOARD DECIDED. I WAS NOT PRIVY. I WAS NOT
5 THERE. SO THIS IS ALL I HAD AND THAT'S WHAT I GAVE YOU IS
6 WHAT I HAD BEEN TOLD.
7 MR. SANDERS: THAT WOULD BE NUMBER FIVE.
8 (WHEREUPON, THE REFERRED-TO DOCUMENT WAS
9 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS EXHIBIT 5.)
10 BY MR. SANDERS:
11 Q OTHER THAN THESE E-MAILS AND THE CONVERSATIONS
12 THAT WE REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION ON WITH KEVIN SANDERS,
13 DO YOU RECALL ANY OTHER CONVERSATIONS WITH KEVIN SANDERS
14 WITH REGARDS TO THE FRANCHISE NOT BEING RENEWED IN THE
15 NORTH FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP ORGANIZATIONS NAME?
16 A I'M TRYING TO BE AS OPEN -- I DON'T RECALL IT.
17 IF WE DID HAVE A CALL, KEVIN, I DON'T RECALL SPECIFICS.
18 PLEASE REFRESH MY MEMORY.
19 Q DO YOU RECALL ANOTHER CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE WE MET
20 HERE IN YOUR OFFICE WITH REGARDS TO A MISS FLORIDA
21 TITLEHOLDER?
22 A YES.
23 Q AND WHO WAS PRESENT AT THAT PARTICULAR MEETING
24 IF YOU RECALL?
25 A THIS PREDATED THIS?
33
1 Q CORRECT.
2 A THIS PREDATED THE FRANCHISE?
3 Q CORRECT.
4 A AND WAS IT THAT SUMMER PRIOR TO MISS AMERICA?
5 Q I BELIEVE SO, YES.
6 A ALL RIGHT. I REMEMBER -- I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER
7 WHO WAS THERE. YOU WERE THERE, KEVIN SANDERS. I WAS
8 THERE. THEN MISS FLORIDA, MARY SULLIVAN, JENNIFER
9 HERRINGTON MAY HAVE BEEN THERE. I'M PULLING OUT NAMES. I
10 DON'T KNOW THAT RICHARD WALKER WAS THERE. THERE WEREN'T
11 MANY PEOPLE THERE, KEVIN. WE WERE TRYING TO KEEP IT
12 VERY LIMITED.
13 Q AND AT THAT MEETING, THERE WAS A NEGOTIATED
14 SETTLEMENT WITH MARY WITH REGARDS TO THAT SITUATION DURING
15 THAT TIME, WAS THERE NOT?
16 A YES.
17 Q OKAY. AND AS A RESULT OF THAT SETTLEMENT
18 NEGOTIATED BY MARY, THEN MISS FLORIDA RESIGNED?
19 A I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT HAS TO DO WITH TODAY, BUT
20 YES, THAT WAS THE END RESULT.
21 Q WELL, AGAIN, I GUESS MARY SULLIVAN ON THAT DAY
22 HAD THE POWER AND THE AUTHORITY TO NEGOTIATE AND RESOLVE
23 THAT ISSUE, DID SHE NOT?
24 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
25 THE WITNESS: I CAN TALK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED
34
1 THERE, WHAT WAS DISCUSSED AND WHETHER IT WENT BACK
2 TO THEIR FULL BOARD TO CONFIRM THAT, KEVIN. I
3 DON'T RECALL.
4 BY MR. SANDERS:
5 Q DO YOU RECALL WHETHER OR NOT THE RESIGNATION WAS
6 REQUIRED TO BE SIGNED BEFORE THE TITLE HOLDER LEFT THE
7 OFFICE?
8 A I BELIEVE THERE WAS SOMETHING DONE, YES.
9 Q THERE WERE NO OTHER BOARD MEMBERS HERE BUT MARY
10 SULLIVAN?
11 A I SAID I DON'T KNOW THAT RICHARD WALKER WAS
12 THERE. I DON'T THINK SO. BUT I DO -- KEVIN, I'M
13 CONFIDENT THERE WAS SOMETHING SAID THAT WOULD STILL BE
14 SUBJECT TO THE BOARD APPROVAL, BECAUSE IT'S NOT ONLY THE
15 RESIGNATION OF A MISS FLORIDA, BUT UNDER THE CONTRACT TO
16 OFFER THE NEXT RUNNER UP THE POSITION OF MISS FLORIDA AND
17 THAT'S AN ACT OF THE BOARD.
18 Q DO YOU KNOW IF THERE WAS ANY PROMISES OR
19 ASSURANCES MADE AT THAT MEETING THAT THE FORMER MISS
20 FLORIDA WOULD STILL RECEIVE HER SCHOLARSHIP MONEY?
21 A MY UNDERSTANDING AT THAT MEETING WAS -- I'VE
22 ALWAYS SAID THAT SCHOLARSHIPS UPON RECEIPT OF THEIR
23 WINNING A PAGEANT, THE SCHOLARSHIPS CANNOT BE FORFEITED.
24 AWARDS CAN BE THAT HAD NOT BEEN DISTRIBUTED.
25 Q DO YOU KNOW IF THOSE SCHOLARSHIPS WERE EVER PAID
35
1 TO THAT FORMER TITLE HOLDER?
2 A I DON'T KNOW AND I WOULDN'T KNOW.
3 Q IF THEY WEREN'T, WOULD THAT BE INCONSISTENT WITH
4 WHAT YOU BELIEVE THE UNDERSTANDING WAS ON THAT DAY?
5 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM AND THE
6 RELEVANCE AS WELL.
7 THE WITNESS: I WOULD BE SURPRISED IF THE
8 SCHOLARSHIPS WERE NOT PAID BECAUSE I'VE ALWAYS
9 BEEN THE PUREST THAT THEY'RE VESTED AT THE TIME.
10 I DON'T RECALL EVER LOOKING INTO THAT, KEVIN.
11 AGAIN, IT WAS NOT MY DECISION. I WAS HERE
12 FACILITATING GIVING A PLACE FOR PEOPLE TO MEET.
13 BY MR. SANDERS:
14 Q AND DO YOU EVER REMEMBER CONVERSATIONS THAT YOU
15 AND I HAD BY TELEPHONE THAT WAS INDICATED THE SCHOLARSHIPS
16 HAD NEVER BEEN PAID?
17 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM.
18 THE WITNESS: WE MAY HAVE, AND I JUST DON'T
19 RECALL RIGHT NOW. IT'S BEEN SEVERAL YEARS AGO.
20 I'M SORRY AS I AGE.
21 BY MR. SANDERS:
22 Q SO ANYTHING WITH REGARDS TO BOARD APPROVAL OR
23 POUR AUTHORITY FROM MARY WOULD BE IN THE BYLAWS ON HOW IT
24 SHOULD BE STRUCTURED AND CONDUCTED?
25 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO FORM.
36
1 THE WITNESS: AS I RECALL, THE BOARD OF
2 DIRECTORS IS THE -- IN ANY CORPORATION, THE BOARD
3 OF DIRECTORS GIVE DIRECTIONS TO THE OFFICERS.
4 THAT'S THE HIERARCHY. IN A PROFIT CORPORATION,
5 THE SHAREHOLDERS ELECT DIRECTORS WHO ELECT
6 OFFICERS WHO SERVE AT THE PLEASURE OF THE
7 DIRECTORS.
8 IN A NON-PROFIT CORPORATION, ESPECIALLY
9 WHERE THERE'S NO FULL TRUE MEMBERSHIP, THE BOARD
10 KIND OF PERPETUATES ITSELF AND FROM THE BOARD
11 OFFICERS ARE ELECTED.
12 BY MR. SANDERS:
13 Q AND ALL OF THAT THEN SHOULD BE REFLECTED IN SOME
14 MINUTES SOMEWHERE?
15 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
16 THE WITNESS: I WOULD THINK SO, YES.
17 BY MR. SANDERS:
18 Q AND WOULD YOU KNOW IF THAT HAD BEEN DONE ON AN
19 ANNUAL BASIS SINCE THE CORPORATION WAS FORMED IN 2002?
20 A WHAT WOULD BE DONE ON AN ANNUAL BASIS?
21 Q THE REELECTION OF THE BOARD AND THE REELECTION
22 OF OFFICERS?
23 A AGAIN, I DON'T REMEMBER THE BYLAWS. SOMETIMES
24 THE BYLAWS WILL SAY THAT THE ELECTED PEOPLE WILL STAY
25 UNTIL UNELECTED OR WILL CONTINUE TO SERVE UNTIL THERE'S A
37
1 REPLACEMENT. I DON'T RECALL. IT MAY PERPETUATE ITSELF,
2 KEVIN. I JUST DON'T REMEMBER.
3 Q YOU SAID THERE WAS A CORPORATE KIT THAT YOU
4 BOUGHT. WOULD THAT HAVE HAD ANOTHER SET OF BYLAWS IN IT
5 TOO?
6 A NO, SIR. IT WOULD -- NO. I WOULD HAVE BOUGHT A
7 BLANK CORPORATE KIT THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A BOOK WITH A
8 SEAL. CAN I BACK UP? MARY MAY HAVE ORDERED IT, KEVIN.
9 HER HUSBAND IS AN ATTORNEY. HE MAY KNOW HOW TO DO THAT.
10 I WOULDN'T VOLUNTEER TO DO IT BECAUSE I'VE GOT TO FRONT
11 THE MONEY TO DO IT. I MAY HAVE SAID MARY YOU DO IT. I
12 DON'T RECALL.
13 Q OR THEN IT MAY NOT HAVE BEEN ORDERED AT ALL?
14 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
15 THE WITNESS: IT MAY NOT BE, BUT I BET I DID
16 IT.
17 BY MR. SANDERS:
18 Q I HAD A QUESTION, IT SLIPPED MY MIND.
19 A CAN I GIVE YOU ONE?
20 Q SURE.
21 A I THINK KEVIN IF THERE WERE NO BYLAWS, THE
22 STATUTE WOULD KICK IN AS FAR AS DUTIES OF DIRECTORS AND
23 OFFICERS. I THINK NON-PROFITS STATUTE 617, I BELIEVE,
24 KEVIN.
25 Q I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT THE QUESTION WAS.
38
1 THROUGH THE TESTIMONY OF THE VARIOUS WITNESSES
2 THERE WOULD APPEAR TO BE A BOARD OF DIRECTORS AS
3 DESIGNATED WITH TALLAHASSEE. THAT'S ON THEIR CORPORATE
4 FILINGS. THAT WOULD BE MARY, RICHARD WALKER AND ROB LOY.
5 THEN THERE WOULD APPEAR TO ALSO BE WHAT THEY'RE
6 CALLING, AND WE'VE SEEN MINUTES OF AN EXECUTIVE, WHICH HAS
7 CONSISTENTLY HAD MARY, RICHARD AND ROB ON THERE, BUT THEN
8 SOMETIMES KITTY HAS BEEN ON THERE, SOMETIMES KEITH
9 WILLIAMS HAS BEEN ON THERE. POSSIBLY ONE OTHER.
10 THERE IS ALSO A BOARD OF DIRECTORS THAT'S LISTED
11 IN THE PAGEANT BOOK, WHICH IS ROUGHLY 18 PEOPLE.
12 DO YOU KNOW WHICH IS THE TRUE BOARD OF
13 DIRECTORS?
14 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM. WITNESS,
15 ARE YOU TESTIFYING.
16 THE WITNESS: I'LL TRY TO ANSWER YOUR
17 QUESTION. I SUSPECT WHEN THE ARTICLES WERE
18 PREPARED. I THINK IT IS CHAPTER 617 REQUIRES YOU
19 MUST HAVE THREE MEMBERS OF A BOARD OF DIRECTORS
20 FOR NON-PROFIT CORPORATIONS CORPORATION, NOT FOR
21 PROFIT.
22 I BELIEVE MARY, RICHARD AND ROB LOY WOULD
23 HAVE BEEN THOSE INITIAL DIRECTORS. I BELIEVE I
24 WAS THE REGISTERED AGENT. I KNOW I WAS BECAUSE
25 I'VE GOT SERVED THIS LAWSUIT AS REGISTERED AGENT.
39
1 I SUSPECT AS MANY CLIENTS DO, THEY GET THE
2 ANNUAL REPORT, THEY SIGN IT, MOVE IT AND FILE IT
3 AND MAY NOT ADD ADDITIONAL PEOPLE OR DELETE, THAT
4 MAY BE WHAT IS HAPPENED. I DON'T -- I WAS NOT
5 INVOLVED IN THAT KEVIN I DON'T KNOW.
6 I KNOW THAT THERE WERE WHAT THE FLORIDA
7 BOARD CALLED REGIONAL DIRECTORS AT ONE POINT, BUT
8 THEY WERE NOT VOTING MEMBERS. THEY WOULD BE
9 THERE. THEY WERE INVITED TO THE MEETINGS TO GIVE
10 REPORTS ON THEIR SPECIFIC REGIONS.
11 AND NOW HAVE CHANGED TO CALL THEM FIELD
12 DIRECTORS. I THINK THEY'RE NOW A MEMBER OF THE
13 BOARD ACCORDING TO THEIR MINUTES, BUT FRANKLY HOW
14 IT'S PUT TOGETHER KEVIN, I WAS NOT INVOLVED IN
15 THAT.
16 BY MR. SANDERS:
17 Q SO AS YOU SIT HERE TODAY YOU DON'T KNOW IF THE
18 BOARD IS STILL TECHNICALLY MARY, RICHARD AND ROB AS LISTED
19 WITH TALLAHASSEE OR IF IT'S SOME OTHER GROUP OF
20 INDIVIDUALS?
21 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
22 THE WITNESS: I KNOW WHO CALLS THEMSELVES
23 THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS. I KNOW WHO GOES TO
24 MEETINGS AND WHEN THEY HAVE MINUTES, THEY WILL SAY
25 WHO IS PRESENT AND WHAT THEY'RE CALLING BOARD OF
40
1 DIRECTORS, BUT HOW THEY GOT ELECTED AND SUCH I
2 WITH NOT HAVE BEEN PRIVY TO THAT.
3 BY MR. SANDERS:
4 Q AND COULD WE AGREE IF THEY WEREN'T PROPERLY
5 ELECTED THEY WOULDN'T ACTUALLY BE A BOARD OF DIRECTORS?
6 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
7 THE WITNESS: THEY MAY BY DEFAULT GO BACK TO
8 THE THREE THAT WERE THE INITIAL DIRECTORS IN THE
9 TALLAHASSEE RECORDS.
10 BY MR. SANDERS:
11 Q WELL, LET ME SHOW YOU A COPY OF WHAT WAS
12 INTRODUCED INTO --
13 A I HAVEN'T RESEARCHED THE LAW ON THAT, SO.
14 Q I WON'T HOLD YOU TO THAT?
15 A OKAY.
16 Q -- COPY OF WHAT WAS PULLED OFF LINE FOR A
17 CORPORATIONS ONLINE FOR THE FLORIDA DIVISION OF
18 CORPORATIONS. IT WAS INTRODUCED INTO MARY SULLIVAN
19 DEPOSITION AS EXHIBIT ONE.
20 MS. KENNEDY: WAS IT MARKED OR INTRODUCED
21 INTO EVIDENCE?
22 MR. SANDERS: IT WAS AN EXHIBIT, PLAINTIFF'S
23 EXHIBIT.
24 MS. KENNEDY: THANK YOU. I'M TRYING TO
25 CLARIFY.
41
1 BY MR. SANDERS:
2 Q HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THAT BEFORE?
3 MS. KENNEDY: DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE DATE AT
4 THE BOTTOM IS?
5 THE WITNESS: IT'S ONE YOU PRINTED,
6 OCTOBER 20, 2006.
7 BY MR. SANDERS:
8 Q CORRECT.
9 A HAVE I SEEN THIS PRINTED DOCUMENT? NO. WOULD I
10 GO TO THE TALLAHASSEE RECORD ON OCTOBER 20, 2006 AND BE
11 ABLE TO PRINT A SIMILAR DOCUMENT? YES.
12 Q OKAY. THAT ONLY HAS MARY, RICHARD AND ROB ON
13 IT. IS THAT CORRECT?
14 A THAT WOULD BE CORRECT.
15 MR. SANDERS: WE'LL GO AHEAD AND MAKE THAT
16 NUMBER SIX.
17 (WHEREUPON, THE REFERRED-TO DOCUMENT WAS
18 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS EXHIBIT 6.)
19 BY MR. SANDERS:
20 Q LET ME SHOW YOU WHAT I HAVE BEEN INITIALLY
21 SHOWING. IT'S A COPY OF THE 2006 FLORIDA PAGEANT PROGRAM
22 BOOK. I'LL SHOW YOU THE ORIGINAL BOOK. INSIDE OF IT, IT
23 HAS A TWO PAGE I GUESS SET OF PHOTOS, NINE ON EACH PAGE,
24 WITH A CAPTION, THE 2006 MISS FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT,
25 INC. BOARD OF DIRECTORS.
42
1 NOW, WHEN YOU SAY THAT YOU KNOW WHO THE BOARD OF
2 DIRECTORS IS, IS THIS THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS THAT YOU'RE
3 REFERRING TO WHEN YOU SAY THAT?
4 A SOME OF THE PEOPLE ON THESE PAGES WERE NOT
5 MEMBERS OF THE BOARD.
6 Q WHO ARE NOT MEMBERS OF THE BOARD?
7 A MYSELF, I'M NOT A VOTING MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF
8 DIRECTORS. WAYNE DEWITT, D-E-W-I-T-T, WAS NOT A MEMBER OF
9 THE BOARD. THE OTHERS I BELIEVE AT THAT TIME WOULD HAVE
10 BEEN VOTING MEMBERS OF THE BOARD, BECAUSE I KNOW THEY WERE
11 AT MEETINGS AND THEY VOTED. HOW THEY BECAME ELECTED OR IF
12 THEY WERE, I WAS NOT PRIVY TO THAT.
13 Q BUT YOU KNOW THAT WHEN YOU WENT TO MEETINGS
14 THOSE INDIVIDUALS ACTUALLY VOTED?
15 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
16 BY MR. SANDERS:
17 Q WITH THE EXCEPTION OF TWO YOU MENTIONED,
18 YOURSELF AND --
19 A WAYNE DEWITT.
20 MS. KENNEDY: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
21 THE WITNESS: I BELIEVE YES, AND I THINK AT
22 THAT POINT WHEN THEY ARE NOW CALLED FIELD
23 DIRECTORS, THEY WERE CONSIDERED MEMBERS OF THE
24 BOARD WITH FULL VOTING RIGHTS RATHER THAN WHEN
25 THEY WERE REGIONAL DIRECTORS.
43
1 BY MR. SANDERS:
2 Q DO YOU KNOW IF THERE IS ANYTHING IN WRITING IN
3 THE BYLAWS OR OTHERWISE THAT WOULD HAVE MADE FIELD
4 DIRECTORS MEMBERS OF THE BOARD?
5 A I SUSPECT THERE ISN'T, BUT I DON'T KNOW.
6 Q LET ME SHOW YOU A COLOR COPY OF THOSE TWO PAGES.
7 I'LL TAKE IT A PART, SO THAT YOU CAN COMPARE IT TO THE
8 BOOK TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S A TRUE AND --
9 A THEY'RE TRUE AND ACCURATE.
10 Q -- ACCURATE REFLECTION OF THE BOOK?
11 A YES, THEY ARE.
12 Q OKAY. AND IS THERE ANY MISTAKE TO YOU THAT THIS
13 IS AN ACTUAL 2006 MISS FLORIDA PAGEANT BOOK FROM THAT
14 YEAR?
15 A LOOKS LIKE IT TO ME.
16 MR. SANDERS: THAT WOULD BE NUMBER SEVEN.
17 (WHEREUPON, THE REFERRED-TO DOCUMENT WAS
18 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS EXHIBIT 7.)
19 MR. SANDERS: I DON'T THINK I HAVE ANY
20 FURTHER QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME.
21 MS. KENNEDY: I DON'T THINK I HAVE ANY
22 EITHER.
23 THE WITNESS: I WOULD LIKE TO READ IT.
24 MS. KENNEDY: DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR
25 YOURSELF?
44
1 THE WITNESS: NO.
2 MR. SANDERS: OFFICIALLY, I'VE BEEN DOING
3 THIS ON ALL THE DEPOSITIONS. I'M JUST GOING TO
4 SUSPEND YOUR DEPOSITION AT THIS TIME. LIKELY, WE
5 WILL NOT CONTINUE IT, BUT I HAVE OTHER DEPOSITIONS
6 OF RICHARD WALKER, PATTY ADEVE, A COUPLE OTHERS.
7 THE WITNESS: IF YOU WANT ME --
8 MS. KENNEDY: BEFORE YOU -- I'M GOING TO GET
9 MY OBJECTION DOWN ON THAT FOR SURE AS I HAVE IN
10 ALL THE OTHER PAST DEPOSITIONS. I FEEL YOU HAVE
11 BEEN GIVEN ADEQUATE TIME TO QUESTION THIS WITNESS
12 AND YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO SUSPEND IT.
13 MR. SANDERS: I DO NOT KNOW BECAUSE I
14 HAVEN'T TAKEN THEIR DEPOSITIONS YET, WHAT IF
15 ANYTHING THEY MAY REFLECT ON YOU.
16 THE WITNESS: WELL, I'M HERE WITHOUT THE
17 BENEFIT OF A SUBPOENA. I'M A NON-PARTY. AND IF
18 IT FITS MY SCHEDULE, IF YOU COME HERE, YOU COULD
19 ALWAYS SUBPOENA ME TO BE HERE FOR A DEPOSITION. I
20 WANT IT COMPLETED. I UNDERSTAND YOU MAY WANT TO
21 COME BACK FOR MORE BITES AT HE APPLE, BUT I WANT
22 IT ENDED BECAUSE I DON'T NEED THIS UNRESOLVED. IF
23 YOU HAVE OTHER QUESTIONS, PLEASE ASK NOW IF YOU
24 KNOW WHAT THEY ARE.
25 MR. SANDERS: AGAIN, I DON'T HAVE ANY
45
1 QUESTIONS AND THERE MAY NOT BE ANYMORE QUESTIONS.
2 I'M ONLY RESERVING FOR THE SOLE AND ONLY PURPOSE
3 THAT IF SOMEBODY LIKE RICHARD WALKER, WHO IS
4 LISTED AS THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD SAYS RAY
5 MCLEOD DID THIS OR INSTRUCTED THIS OR SOMETHING
6 LIKE THAT, IF I FEEL THE NEED -- THAT I NEED TO
7 FOLLOW-UP WITH YOU ON THAT, THEN I WOULD, WITH OF
8 COURSE, YOUR COORDINATION SUBPOENA WHATEVER YOU
9 WANT. I WOULD RESCHEDULE THIS AND JUST ASK YOU --
10 JUST ON THOSE LIMITED QUESTIONS THAT WERE BROUGHT
11 UP.
12 MS. KENNEDY: WE MADE OUR OBJECTION CLEAR
13 AND WE MADE IT CLEAR THAT WE ARE AVAILABLE TO
14 CONTINUE HERE UNTIL YOU COMPLETE. WE WILL TAKE IT
15 UP LATER IF IT BECOMES AN ISSUE.
16 THE WITNESS: I HOPE IT'S NOT AN ISSUE.
17 THANK YOU.
18 (WHEREUPON THE PROCEEDINGS WERE CONCLUDED AT
19 3:17 P.M.)
20
21
22
23
24
25
46
1 CERTIFICATE OF OATH
2 STATE OF FLORIDA)
3 COUNTY OF ORANGE)
4 I, THE UNDERSIGNED AUTHORITY, CERTIFY THAT
5 RAYMOND MCLEOD, PERSONALLY APPEARED BEFORE ME AND
6 WAS DULY SWORN.
7 WITNESS MY HAND AND OFFICIAL SEAL THIS 30TH
8 DAY OF MARCH, 2009.
9 I, SANDRA A. MOSER, REGISTERED PROFESSIONAL
10 REPORTER, CERTIFY THAT I WAS AUTHORIZED TO AND DID
11 STENOGRAPHICALLY REPORT THE FOREGOING PROCEEDINGS
12 AND THAT THE TRANSCRIPT IS A TRUE RECORD.
13 I FURTHER CERTIFY THAT I AM NOT A RELATIVE,
14 EMPLOYEE, ATTORNEY OR COUNSEL OF ANY OF THE
15 PARTIES, NOR AM I FINANCIALLY INTERESTED IN THE
16 ACTION.
17 DATED THIS 30TH DAY OF MARCH, 2009.
18
19
20
______________________________
21 SANDRA A. MOSER, RPR,FPR
NOTARY PUBLIC - STATE OF FLORIDA
22 MY COMMISSION NO. DD0525811
MY COMMISSION EXPIRES: 5/6/10
23
24
25
47
1 SUBSCRIPTION OF DEPONENT
2 STATE OF FLORIDA
3 COUNTY OF ORANGE
4 I, RAYMOND MCLEOD, DO HEREBY CERTIFY, HAVING
5 READ THE FOREGOING DEPOSITION, THAT SAID
6 TRANSCRIPT IS A TRUE AND ACCURATE RECORDING OF THE
7 PROCEEDINGS HAD AT THE TIME AND PLACE DESIGNATED,
8 INCLUDING CORRECTIONS NOTED ON THE ERRATA SHEET,
9 IF ANY.
10
11 ____________________________
RAYMOND MCLEOD
12 DATE:
13 SWORN TO AND SUBSCRIBED BEFORE ME THIS ___ DAY
14 OF_______, 2009.
15 ____________________________
NOTARY PUBLIC
16 MY COMMISSION EXPIRES:
17
18 ERRATA SHEET
19 I, RAYMOND MCLEOD, WISH TO MAKE THE FOLLOWING
20 CORRECTIONS:
21 PAGE LINE CORRECTION
22
23
24
25
48
1 REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
1188 FOX FORREST CIRCLE
2 APOPKA, FLORIDA 32712
3 407-884-4662
4
5 MARCH 30, 2009
6
7 KRISTYNE E. KENNEDY, ESQUIRE
JACKSON LEWIS
8 390 NORTH ORANGE AVENUE
SUITE 1285
9 ORLANDO, FLORIDA 32801
10 RE: NORTH FLORIDA SCHOLARSHIP V. MISS FLORIDA
SCHOLARSHIP PAGEANT, INC., ET AL.
11 CASE NO.: 16-2007-CA-00575-MA
DEPOSITION OF RAYMOND MCLEOD
12
DEAR MS. KENNEDY:
13
THE DEPOSITION OF RAYMOND MCLEOD TAKEN IN THE
14 ABOVE-REFERENCED MATTER IS READY FOR READING AND SIGNING.
15 PLEASE HAVE THE DEPONENT CONTACT ME SO THAT HE
CAN SCHEDULE A TIME TO READ THE TRANSCRIPT AND SIGN THE
16 ERRATA SHEET. UPON COMPLETION OF SAME, I WILL FORWARD.
THE SIGNATURE PAGE TO MR. SANDERS, WHO IS IN POSSESSION.
17 OF THE ORIGINAL TRANSCRIPT.
18 IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE DON'T.
HESITATE TO CALL.
19
SINCERELY,
20
21
22 SANDRA A. MOSER, RPR, FPR
23
24
25
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